AOTY C&R

To stay the same in the face of a changing world and changing perceptions is to claim that we are right in some way, or that we don't care. 

AOTY existence is not being threatened in any way shape or form.  To conform in the face of, "perceived," change is an admission of wrongdoing......what are we doing that is wrong?


and I have no problem with the honor system.

I'm not concerned, particularly, about how the world looks at us. By the same token, I don't get how "conforming" is somehow an admission of some kind of wrongdoing?

I don't mind at all, however, leading by example if we are trying to improve something. I have no idea how much the world pays attention to us. I think it would be hard to criticize us for using DFG rules as the basis for what is accepted as entries. I also think the ethos that we don't catch and release fish in catch and release fisheries would be lost on most people. I do, however, believe that anyone could understand, and appreciate, the fact that we don't include ESA species in our target list. If we're concerned about public perception, lets just drop steelhead and salmon, and put a banner on the AOTY homepage to the effect that we want to protect these populations as much as possible, even where they can be legally fished.

Ben

lets just drop steelhead and salmon, and put a banner on the AOTY homepage to the effect that we want to protect these populations as much as possible, even where they can be legally fished.

I like that 

The way the discussion in this thread is evolving is making me think this will slowly develop into a freshwater version of the MLPA. Can't fish here, can't catch that, don't photo this or that. Why can't we just leave the AOTY rules alone? Not everyone can fish for all species anyway, and some (like me) have yet to catch a fish. How long before someone suggests not fishing for or photographing striped bass because it isn't a native species or LMB because someone disapproves of catching pre-spawn fish.

I'm just saying, if it's legal, leave it be. If anyone doesn't want to photograph C&R fish, it's his/her option. I don't doubt the validity of what NWKA is doing either, but do we have to do everything that NWKA does? No offense, Allen.

BTW, if I ever have the good fortune of catching a steelhead or salmon from a kayak (which I think would probably happen only if Hell freezes over), I will photograph it, AOTY or not, and whether or not I C&R it or take it home for dinner, and still post the pix. As long as it's legal to do so.

I don't doubt the validity of what NWKA is doing either, but do we have to do everything that NWKA does? No offense, Allen.

No offense taken Hojo!!!  I don't think anyone was advocating doing everything NWKA does.

-Allen

Theoretically, I do not believe that its ethical to allow undue stress to one fish and get all warm and fuzzy about another, the PETA'ish tactics don't work for me. 

We all ready do this with O/S Dino and other fish with a size limit.

I don't think anyone was advocating doing everything NWKA does

Allen I sorta did.
 I think it would be cool to have a bet going between both sites and the losers would treat the winners to a trip or a Silly prize on their turf sorta like the Mayors of Cities in the SuperBowl or World Series.

I guess with the Rules the way they are now I can post up a Canary??

I've been following this topic & have come to a conclusion of a "No" vote.
Good discussion but many people have different opinions, so I think just make it as a personal choice rather then changing rule again & making it more complicated...

I agree with Naoaki, it comes down to personal choice. Nobody's being forced to fish C&R waters. Participation is voluntary. You definitely don't need to catch a salmon & steelhead to win either...a 16" perch or 17" greenling is worth more than a 31" steelie 

Theoretically, I do not believe that its ethical to allow undue stress to one fish and get all warm and fuzzy about another, the PETA'ish tactics don't work for me. 

We all ready do this with O/S Dino and other fish with a size limit.

I guess with the Rules the way they are now I can post up a Canary??

Yes we do that with dino's, that one went into affect a while back and I'm pretty sure the rationale was undue stress, practicality and safety....its a different ballgame when the fish is 7 feet long with razors attached to its back and sides.  I'm not in complete agreement with that one either for the same reasons but I can live with it considering the reality of handling a beast.

I'm not sure if a ruling has been established on canaries yet (BSteves can chime in on that one).  I suppose that technically it can be submitted......if you really want to be THAT GUY in a friendly competition. 



...and I've only seen one fish removed.  Happened earlier this year when an angler innocently posted an undersized fish that he had released and the points counted toward his Total score.  We removed it no harm no foul. 



 

Has anyone read Eric's excellent post, "The Truth about Eel Salmon Fishing"? From there:

"Here's why it's a confusing issue:  the fish are listed under the ESA, and "targetting" an ESA listed fish is illegal..."

I've been asking why it is we have ESA fish included on the species list (with no reply, btw) only because it seemed intuitively contradictory. I didn't realize that it was actually illegal and just not being enforced. I guess we could banter about state vs fed rules ... but in the end it's still illegal.

Yes I read it. Here's my reply....we don't have an ESA listed fish on the AOTY species list.....we have salmon. 

Soooooo then Salmon/Steelhead from the Eel would be disqualified?

we don't have an ESA listed fish on the AOTY species list.....we have salmon

Semantics

Yes we do that with dino's, that one went into affect a while back and I'm pretty sure the rationale was undue stress, practicality and safety....its a different ballgame when the fish is 7 feet long with razors attached to its back and sides.  I'm not in complete agreement with that one either for the same reasons but I can live with it considering the reality of handling a beast.

I'm not sure if a ruling has been established on canaries yet (BSteves can chime in on that one).  I suppose that technically it can be submitted......if you really want to be THAT GUY in a friendly competition. 

Sorta negates the Warm and Fuzzy, Whatever is DF&G Legal arguments as the rules are now.

we don't have an ESA listed fish on the AOTY species list.....we have salmon

Semantics

perception