AOTY C&R

I think we should also put a limit on how many days you can fish per month - just to keep it fair for all   

and a mileage handicap 

I know the rules.  Just planting a seed to think about ...

Honestly, I don't know why the rule. When I first read it, a long while ago, I thought it was cool to reinforce the DFG rules so people wouldn't intentionally go for over/under sized fish... at least that was my assumption.

I've since read the concerns relating to the treatment of (big) sturgeon since, so I guess that's what you are eluding to, and that's legitimate. But if we're talking about sturgeon, you'd do them a much bigger favor by allowing yakkers to aid one another in measuring them in the water rather than insist they be measured solo. Released legal fish would also have better odds ... and we could include the giants too (just kidding ... but we could ...  ).

Maybe I'm wrong and AOTY participants *do* fish C&R water enough that it would make a difference to the fish population, or this would in some way improve the quality of the tournament somehow. If so, I'll gladly change my vote.

Ben

If you ban C&R only fish then ban all fish that are caught and released.

Why don't we just change our name to NC Bloody Decks? 



I agree with Craig & Brian and would love to include inland Fish in a C&R area but thought some people would be against it and I haven't seen one entered yet. Maybe just allow fisheries that are managed for C&R ??

I also thought about species that are ESA listed but that would count out all Salmon caught just about anywhere including big blue you could only enter fish from the Klamath system and Smith River and LL s.

I haven't even voted yet but my reasoning was how we look to people on the outside and it would Mirror NWKA and we could have a West Coast Champ and it would be easier for Brian and Allen to do whatever they do. If it was up to me I would just go with the ESA rule.

I go steelhead fishing on the Eel

They wouldn't count either
 Sin's comment is actually pretty ironic if you think about.

I agree with Allen about to many rules but this would make it much simpler

Allen is 100% correct on the Contest issues as we grow people will be looking at us more and more and this type of Contest will be outlawed if we don't watch it.

IMO, I think we should keep the AOTY rules consistent with the regs - slot limits for sturg, min size for stripers, bass, other species.  

Maybe I'm wrong but my take on this proposal is provide additional recognition by us that nearly all native CA steelhead, silver salmon, and king salmon runs are in trouble.  I support minimizing our impact on the natives, even if we are only talking about a small number of individual fish handled by our AOTY folks, for those native runs that are currently managed as C&R based on conservation concerns. I know people can argue both sides of the argument regarding C&R vs CP&R and additional stress.  I don't think that this is what the current proposal is about, rather let's just avoid any possible additional stress on native salmonids currently managed as C&R by excluding them from AOTY. Dropping them from AOTY is no big issue to me and I support the spirit of the proposal. Plenty of hatchery steelhead that can be entered in AOTY.  King salmon, well that's another can of worms depending on what's open in any one year.  

I don't feel this way about trophy trout C&R fisheries.  If C&R is the management tool used to promote a trophy fishery, and there are not ESA conservation issues to consider, then I would vote to include these C&R populations in the AOTY. I don't know anything about Lake Heenan - what's the deal with this lake.

We already have a set of rules to follow...... its called the DFG rules and regulations.

Works for me

I used to feel like that until I realized all the bad decisions that F&G makes and saw them supporting the MLPA at SP.

Which Headline would you prefer to see in the Paper?

NCKA AOTY encourages Member's To Fish for Endangered Species

Or

NCKA AOTY will not Allow Member's to Fish for ESA Listed Species even though DF&G says it's OK

It's highly likely I'm missing something.  But what was wrong with the way things are now, exactly?

Far as I can see, those who are likely to enter said fish are highly concientious fishermen.

If someone is flagrantly acting in what can be considered an unethical manner just for AOTY points why not address the issue directly rather than ruffle everyone's feathers?

Last year I posted a wild steelhead from the Russian. Photographed and swam away looking Ok. I have no idea how that fish turned out but I do know this. The barbless hook was embedded deep into the stomach opening and it was stressing the fuck out of the fish trying to remove it. I ended up clipping it close as I could without further damaging the fish. In light of that, if you really want to make a statement about wild fish and salmon on the Russian I wouldnt fish the system AT ALL. Or any other river that is C+R that involves steelhead or salmon. So you make a list of all rivers that are C+R and remove them from the contest. Making sure to keep up with all the changes that the DFG or the Feds make during the year. In fact if you are seen fishing any of these rivers you will turned over to kayakjack for further punishment.

If you ban C&R only fish then ban all fish that are caught and released.

Why don't we just change our name to NC Bloody Decks? 

Nah, but we can change it to anglers so socially conscious that they're against fishing.

         

I used to feel like that until I realized all the bad decisions that F&G makes and saw them supporting the MLPA at SP.

I don't agree with DFG all the time, but generally I'm left with the perception they err more on the side of conservation than not.

Which Headline would you prefer to see in the Paper?

NCKA AOTY encourages Member's To Fish for Endangered Species

Or

NCKA AOTY will not Allow Member's to Fish for ESA Listed Species even though DF&G says it's OK

I think, rather, the headline would be, "NCKA AOTY show support for DFG rules"

I don't feel this way about trophy trout C&R fisheries.  If C&R is the management tool used to promote a trophy fishery, and there are not ESA conservation issues to consider, then I would vote to include these C&R populations in the AOTY. I don't know anything about Lake Heenan - what's the deal with this lake.

This is, to me, is a persuasive argument, and Craig's story is meaningful.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Ben

Maybe I'm wrong but my take on this proposal

Not a Proposal Just my curiosity.

Craig you are taking it way too extreme if I looked at it that way I couldn't fish the ocean in fear of killing a Canary.
I know I will kill a Native fish once in a while but I am not targeting them. Does that make it OK ? Some will say yes some will say no.
I have to find a happy medium and try and minimize my impact doing the things I love to do.
I not saying I'm right or wrong it's just the way I feel.  

Mike, it was a vain attempt at sarcastic humor. Of course I would want to fish the Russain for hatchery fish. Thats what they are there for. I would never hoist a canary like I saw acouple of days ago though. Rest assured I will never do that to a native steelie ever again. Its going right back in , no photo. I am voting yes in the spirit of conservation of native specie.

All said (maybe not all is said yet) none of us here on this site (at least the ones we have fished with) would intentionally harm any native or protected fish. We are just a drop in the bucket in the bigger picture, but as others mentioned maybe we can set a precedent when it comes to angling. That's what I love about this site...people actually care.

All said (maybe not all is said yet) none of us here on this site (at least the ones we have fished with) would intentionally harm any native or protected fish. We are just a drop in the bucket in the bigger picture, but as others mentioned maybe we can set a precedent when it comes to angling. That's what I love about this site...people actually care.

 

"NCKA AOTY show support for DFG rules

That wouldn't make the paper

but generally I'm left with the perception they err more on the side of conservation than not.

But they are not protecting an ESA Listed Species, and closing most of state park to fishing that families like us have been using for generations and we still have to pay for it.  I generally perceive you voted for the $18 tax also.

Art why do you even care? you have been a member longer than most have never shown any intrest in AOTY or Fishing the Rivers which is what we are talking about seem like a pretty bright guy claim to be a moderater guilty of stirring it up as do I instaed of making silly comments why don't you tell us how you really feel or is this just part of your Global Moderation? I did respectfully ask that only AOTY guys respond

"NCKA AOTY show support for DFG rules
That wouldn't make the paper

Respectfully, "NCKA AOTY encourages Member's To Fish for Endangered Species" is disingenuous and "NCKA AOTY will not Allow Member's to Fish for ESA Listed Species even though DF&G says it's OK" also, would not make the papers. I have no problem considering public perceptions in what we do, but given that I've never seen an NCKA member behave unethically in the sense that we're talking about, I'm not worried about it either.

but generally I'm left with the perception they err more on the side of conservation than not.

But they are not protecting an ESA Listed Species

If that's true, and we can compensate, I don't have a problem with it. But your proposed rule change only puts us on the same page with NWKA and doesn't consider rivers/lakes where ESA species aren't really the issue. If the goal is to do some kind of West Coast Angler of the Year, that's another issue.


> I generally perceive you voted for the $18 tax also.

You would be wrong... but it wasn't all that black and white in my mind either. The reasoning DaleL put up was hard to argue with.

I'm not trying to make this complicated. I just want to fish for fun, and AOTY seemed like a way to support the site and motivate me to get out more than I would otherwise. Certainly, whatever is decided is fine by me, and other than the Stanislaus (where I have as yet to fish for C& R species), this doesn't affect me.  But, oddly, for the first time I think, I'm beginnning to agree with Art in a surreal sort of way 

Ben

Let's cut the crap shall we?

This thread is about BlackAb fishing the Eel. BlackAb says he aint gonna post up any Eel fish on AOTY.  End of Story. FWIW, if I ever go steelhead fishing, I never have yet, and I catch a nice one legally.....C&R only.....ESA listed or not.....I will probably take a quick pic whether I'm entered in AOTY or not. From what I've read and the paltry few caught among NCKA they must be as hard or harder than sturgeon to catch. Obviously if they aren't legal to fish for then I won't be trying.

Recently at the Windsor Wal-Mart fishing tackle aisle I was picking up a few plano boxes. Some kid walks up to me and asks "Stocking up?". I said yes and we talked for a while. The young man proceeded to ask me how I've been doing on the salmon front. At the time some people were getting skunked on the K and I also told him I was 0 for 1 on the ocean myself. He went on to tell me how him and his buddy were 'absolutely killing it' on the Russian. I was surprised and immediately said "Hey I thought salmon weren't legal on the Russian are you talking about steelhead" To which he quickly replied "Oh we're just catching them for 'sport' and releasing them. We haven't caught any steelhead just alot of salmon" I could tell at this point that the little SOB was now lieing about the release of salmon caught and he quickly skulked away.      That is a good example of real unethical fishing. Should have got a cell phone pic of the culprit.

From the response to Eric's emails it looks like NMFS is dragging their feet towards a decision. Until then it is up to the individual. I am not going to cast my vote because as Craig has stated the AOTY rules are always made behind closed doors and the participants do not have a voice so why bother. jim