AOTY 2010 is up and ready for your $$****Who is IN or going to be IN IT?

Pacific sanddab - Family: Bothidae (Left Eye Flounder) Citharichthys sordidus

Starry Flounder - Family: Pleuronectidae (Right Eye Flounder)Platichthys stellatus
Arrowtooth Flounder - Family: Pleuronectidae Atheresthes stomias

So I guess you're right. they should count. I got confused when I saw the starry flounder picture on the AOTY page and thought they would have to be part of the same family.  

The thinking behind these changes was to make it more open for more people to participate AND contend without having to go to insane lengths. There are 20 fish now but only your 10 best scoring fish count towards your ranking. Can't catch salmon? No problem you can target another species. Freshwater not your game? You can get pretty close to filling your card all in the salt (assuming a ocean salmon season) same with you sweat water guys you can fill your card all in freshwater.

We think this will be a lot more fun and enable more people to contend, while still making it special to be AOTY champion.

Great thinking!  Couldn't agree with you guys more...

Any time there has a been a suggestion for modest changes to the AOTY format in years past there has always been discussion and a strong advocacy for retaining the original format.  To flat out state that there is no room for discussion of such a major change to the format strikes me as opposed to the spirit of NCKA.

Here are the reasons for my iniital negative reaction to the proposed changes, fully acknowledging I haven't seen the details of the new scoring system.

The original 10 species format AOTY includes 10 species that provide a real challenge to NorCal anglers including SW (halibut, cab, rockfish, ling, salmon), FW (SMB, LMB, trout) or both (striper, sturgeon, salmon). These species could be argued to be the premier game fish of NorCal.  To fill your dance card and upgrade is an accomplishment in itself - to win the AOTY under this format is a real meaningful accomplishment.  It's difficult, which give it value and meaning.

To be able to substitute a catfish for a sturgeon, a panfish for a halibut, a spotted bass for a river/ocean salmon?  That cheapens what the AOTY championship would mean, IMHO.  Further, it stinks of let's lower the standards so everyone can play. What's next, bumper stickers in the AOTY captain bags proclaiming "My child's on the AOTY honor roll".

No direspect intended to anyone or their targeted species and expertise.  But the current AOTY format is a worthy challenge. What about retaining the original format for determining an AOTY champ, and adding the new categories that will each have a top finisher for each category, similar to the biggest fish within each category we now have?  Seems like a reasonable compromise.

Take care guys - John
 

The new list is very cool, looks like fun,

of course I always gotta make a comment, NOT a complaint, but I would have liked to have seen sharks on the list,

plentiful, fun and easy to catch, of course not so easy to measure as it's just best to let'em go.

IMO with a group as large as this, discussion on something like this is just not practical, so 20 is the new 10.

No disrespect to Bird either but I'm not all that competitive so this looks like allot more fun,

Now I gotta get that license......  

John, My sentiments exactly except you worded things much better that I wrote and deleted at least four times. I will only be fishing for the original ten species. But in turn I would like the original points....

i kind of agree with john here even though if you asked the same question of me last year i would be more towards bill's side. i think the idea is sound in that we want more participation in AOTY, but that could come at the expense of true skill/determination winning out in the end of the year.  a 36" ocean going salmon would be worth 180pts.  to get the same with say a panfish would be a 15" crappie, which is a fairly difficult feat but definitely without the same "prestige".  

i hate sturgeon fishing - its hours and hours of boredom (except for maybe melissa) coupled with 30 minutes - 2 hours of sure thrill.  

so i guess i can just say, i'll spend my 4 days of sturgeon fishing and go catch a spotted bass one day, a catfish another, a kokanee and a bluegill.  all of which would put points on the board and be more of a "sure" thing.

of course I always gotta make a comment, NOT a complaint, but I would have liked to have seen sharks on the list,

i also echo this - why perch/flounder/greenling would be above a leopard (threshers should not count because their tail skews all measurements) when more people target leopards than they do perch, flounder and greenling (all of which are generally more of incidental catches) is confusing to me.

Bird to make those substitutions you would need a min. 28 inch catfish or a min 9 inch panfish. Those would equal the smallest legal keepable sturgeon and halibut. You are going to have a really tough time winning trying to do that.

Sharks are big and tough to get a good measure on without putting yourself in real danger. While the same could be said of Sturgeon, many people will keep a legal Sturgeon to eat and many people do not keep sharks to eat. Going through all the danger, putting the fish under a ton of stress for a fish that many people will not be eating does not seem like a good idea.

We will think about including them next year.

I was kind of pissed when this came out but now I know whats up. So I will fish for the original 10 specie. No more and no less. A sand dab or a crappie in my eyes will never be equal to the original 10. A man or woman for that point must put in the hours and time to be a real champ. I will never go to Del Valle and hope to get 5 of the species in one day. Thanks Bill for trying to please all of us. It must be a real bitch.

Here's my comments. Then I'll shut up.
-we should change "surf perch" to "ocean perch"
-we should adjust the greenling points from 11/in to 10/in
-we should clarify that a rainbow trout over 16" in anadramous waters IS a steelhead

Sharks are big and tough to get a good measure on without putting yourself in real danger. While the same could be said of Sturgeon, many people will keep a legal Sturgeon to eat and many people do not keep sharks to eat. Going through all the danger, putting the fish under a ton of stress for a fish that many people will not be eating does not seem like a good idea.

We will think about including them next year.

sounds fair enough, no more complaints from me regarding this..although the second that someone posts up a 16" slab perch for 192pts i think there will be a little crankiness going on around..

When I think of NCKA's spirits, they reminded me of the good times I spent with other NCKAers through hookups,  the friendships I made throughout the years and more to come, the sharing of knowledge, etc.. Bill and others put lots of time and thought to come up with this new format with their best intentions, so please give it a try and see if adjustments are needed for next year AOTY.  I know who deserves my respects regardless of his/her "ranking" on the AOTY.

Yes if you already paid and don't like the new rules just let me know and I will refund your entry fee. They are not open to discussion.

Thanks to Brian for knocking this out, without him AOTY does not exist. He puts in a ton of work behind the scenes, if you happen to see him buy him many beers!

That is of course, if you happen to be in Portland, OR.


I'm going to work with ChuckE and the AOTY committee to clarify the rules as soon as possible.

For the purposes of AOTY...

Halibut = pacific and/or california halibut
Flounder = any other flatfish including sand dabs, soles, plaice, etc..

Surf Perch = any member of the family Embiotocidae.  This list includes the "surfperches" (calico surfperch, redtail surfperch, barred surfperch, walleye surfperch, and silver surfperch) as well as the "seaperches" (striped seaperch, rubberlip seaperch, pile perch, black perch and shiner perch).  If I forgot any let me know! FWIW, ocean perch is not an appropriate name as they are type of rockfish!

Trout = rainbow, cutthroat, golden, brook, and brown trout (assuming they are legal to fish for).
Steelhead = a rainbow trout over 16" in anadramous waters.

Panfish = yellow perch, pumpkinseed, bluegill, redear sunfish, green sunfish, black crappie and white crappie.

Kokanee = landlocked sockeye.  If you catch a landlocked coho or chinook, don't enter it as a kokanee, enter it as a salmon if you must.



If you have any questions or need clarifications please don't hesitate to ask.

We may still tweak the points per inch a bit on the some of the new fish, but as far as I'm concerned the species list is set in stone for 2010.

Brian

I don't see any downside to the new format-- ????

says the guy with the 49" catfish growing in his pond... 

   Ya know, if we could count catfish at X-points per ton I might have a shot! Pulling a seine behind my yak might be an issue though...

Doing this, for me, is just a way of (I hope) supporting NCKA and adding a dimension of fun to my new addiction, so I don't really care what the rules are. Looking at it from a more competitive angle I don't see this as dumbing down the event at all. Some of the new species *might* compete point wise with some of the smaller species on the old list, but I think that if you are determined to win you will pretty much need to target the old list anyway. What might throw a wrinkle into that thinking is something like a 20# catfish out-placing a 19# salmon. But if you are able to beat the odds like that I think you earned it and it doesn't cheapen anything. In fact, I'd imagine the new format allows for more strategizing. My first impression is "well done!".

Ben