Kayak Police Patrol

Hi Yakers:

      Nothing worse than a "Buzz Killer" when the fishing Time is sooo limited and $$$. I had the DFG waste some fishing time "Just checking me out".
      I'm from San Diego and it kill me to loose a YT and "Casa Cove"
to a herd of Seals.
       It would be nice to see the LandLord thin out the Herd.
                                                           Just me Spin,
                                                           I was NOT here
                                                           I didn't post this 
                                                           Ernie

It's time to get dr phil out there on a kayak to help sort this one out

Adam+1 = iNEEDtoDOaWACK-OFFhandGESTURErealSOON!! 

Just Do It! 

DaveW -1

I thought the scene was funny and I understand and agree that protecting sealions is up there with protecting pigeons at this point (although they actually were threatened).

But I would not have handled it this way.  I would have politely bent the guys ear on why he was completely off base until he paddled away to escape, but I would have told him why I disagreed.

Not to bring personal stuff into this, but I work for a Timber Company on fish stuff and I constantly have to talk with folks I disagree with - environmentalist and agenda encumbered agency staff.  I have found that there can be many points of agreement among opposing camps when the lines of communication stay open.

As much as I agree with Calbear's feelings on this, the NOAA kid went away thinking the yak fishers are nuts and do not have a reasonable point of view.

Also, I think it is important to recognize that everyone on this board is an environmentalist or a conservationist.  We all love the environment, that's why we do this sport.  None of us advocate, like, paving over the bay or something for profit over the environment.  What we are really arguing about is the conservation and sustainability strategy for marine resources.  Yes, we have different ways of looking at this problem, but it is, I think, important to remember that the NOAA kid thinks he's doing the right thing - as we all do.  We need to appeal to that side of our adversaries to make change.  Otherwise, as I've found in my work, there's endless mind-numbing polarity.  Groups hate each other forever.

My 2 cents.

DaveW -1

I agree with DaveW, and I want to leave it at that.

Abking -1

As much as I think I outta just not say anything, well, I'm not good at that,

But I' also lazy so let me just say that I'm in full agreement with Mooch, SteveS, and now DaveW, (excellent piece).

Creating an antagonistic atmosphere with these issues just isn't going to help our cause and will probably hurt it, the actual decisions that affect our fishing will not be made on the water or in the great outdoors, they will be made elswhere and if you want a seat at that table and be listened to as a valid participant, getting in someone's face right off the bat ain't gonna help.

If you don't think that our limited participation (SBD and other fishing advocates) on the RSG helped our cause greatly, then study Proposal 4, also known as Alternate 3 that was in front of the FG&C, it could have been much worse and I believe that participation by fishing groups are what made the difference.

Blast away if you want,

BTW Jim, your time at the mic at the last FG&C meeting was great, you presented a well thought out and heart felt argument,
it was not time wasted,  I went because I felt if they were gonna shaft us then they'd have to look us in the eye when they did it.

Wasn't gonna post on this thread but DaveW's comment was right on target - agreed 100%.

Of course, the whack-off gesture still has its place...

Well thanks for all the further discussion guys. Read back and you'll see I never said I would have acted the same as calbear. I just sympathized with his frustrations and saw why he felt that way. Instead of worrying about Jerry's feelings a few others and myself saw the humor in the "story" and calbears, the fisherman's, POV. I'm pissed at NOAA's involvement in supporting an anti-fishing agenda and I vented a little here. My bad I guess. But comparing me to Jerry? Wow. I've never gone around hastling any people while they were trying to fish. But you don't fish down here Abking so I guess you are assuming that? I guess we are all at different volume levels and some of you resent that I'm currently stuck on like 11. Too bad. Someday you might be feeling the same pain I am now. I'll support you bro's no matter how your pain manifests itself. Try to remember I am pro-fishing, I am not advocating using obscenities, but I am saying that at this point with the commisioners stacked against us 3 to 5 I believe it's time to increase the volume. Maybe a civil speaking contingent and a protesting contingent. If you guys have some better ideas other than everybody agreeing that I am out of line and piling on me. Speak up! Or at least quit comparing me to "Jerry". That hurt. But it won't shut me up. jim



-1 Dave W

-1 Abking        

Or do you guys believe that I am more of a problem than Jerry?

jim

I think it was your comparison that got me going, but I modified my post because I don't want any bad blood about it.  I just wanna be nice.   

Yes, that's very tongue-in-cheek to say, but really, I feel that your extreme position on environmentalists and your over-simplifying of others' personal preferences, reasoning and choices (your poll and the references to being nice...etc.) compelled me to respond.  I hope you can take my POV as polite feedback. 

I agree with being civil towards people in general, especially people sitting in a kayak ....but being moved off by the Barney Fife of the "Save the Sea lions" patrol must have been something to see.
My reaction would have been more like ..."Dude, you've got to be kidding ..right. OK wheres the camera!?"

Also....I would not use the "shot-gun pumping" gesture myself but I can understand it.
Oh, its not shotgun pumping?

but really, I feel that your extreme position on environmentalists

.....

Environmentalists?
 Where? When did this happen?
I have not seen a real one in quite some time...and our friend Jerry sure is not one.
I have know some real environmentalists over the years and what we often rail against are not real ones.
 In fact they give real environmentalists a bad name.
Alienating the most logical environmental allies ie . recreational fishers is silly. We could be an army...the eyes and ears against poachers up and down the whole coast if this were done right.
Only eco frauds take such issue with the smallest fishers while hiding from the huge issues that threaten our eco system. True, it is safer to try and control us then mega abusers of the environment and this can most logically be explained as cowardice.

Its like the ol President Nixons "Operation Intercept"....a campaign to arrest the flow of marijuana as the cocaine trade went unchallenged. Cherrypicking token issues for the most public relations buzz and personal therapy goals is nice I guess. Cowardly, impotent and er....nice.

Playing too nice to get along with these fools may also not be so effective. Nice means weakness to some and especially to Monterey Bays self appointed sole proprieters...as you all well know now.

Eric, I am so glad you opened up that can of worms regarding my addendum to the textbook definition of environmentalist. DaveW, I am also soo glad that you wisely mentioned that, I feel, better word..... conservationist. Remember all those IPA supporters stepping up to the mic repeating one after the other "I am an environmentalist". To me now.....It's a dirty word. It has a negative connotation. "They" own that word and I will not describe myself as such.

Eric, if that is an extreme position then I guess I'm an exteme mofo. If you think it's wrong for me to post up a thread so NCKAer's can stand up and be counted then I guess I'll make it simple for you since you don't like my poll. Where exactly do you stand? Will you stand up and fight when they come for B.H? S.C? M of the M? H Bay? When will you get pissed? Hopefully, before you lose places you love. I've been to all of your fav haunts and I love them too. Whoops, there I go again. Oversimplifying. jim


"Nice means weakness to some." That is a great quote Bajareefer. I agree with that.


Eric, I am also 2x glad you mentioned my addendum because I guess it may have given you and others the idea that I don't care about the environment. I do. I just don't like these "environmentalists". I have changed my blurb, as of 8/27 so people won't get the wrong perception of me. I hope everyone can understand the distinction between the two labels. The closure supporters introduce themselves as "environmentalists" and then add "We fish too but we don't want anyone to fish these areas anymore so support the closure please." I would never do that. There are other ways to conserve the fishery and what they are doing will shift pressure and I believe makes things worse. What they really want to do is incrementally close areas until there's nothing left to fish. This MLPA was their first step. jim

Read a little closer Dave W as calbear was shorefishing my friend. Only yak was Jerry's.

It just says he was fishing on the ocean side of the jetty and Jerry "paddled up to him". I figured he was in his kayak, though I'm not sure what difference it makes.

When you said "Jerry is the problem" I assumed you meant big picture. You response to me was more like he was the problem in this instance. Maybe so. And I only mean that in the sense that no one has been able to find a *reg* that say's 100 feet, only a NOAA suggestion. Jerry *should* have said that rather than threatening to call in the DFG. But given that CalBear pretty much pulled down his pants and laughed at his guys, I get his response.

Which is pretty much the point, isn't it? You hit me, I hit you back harder, then we go get our friends ... and the group with the most political clout wins with the IPA.  DaveW's strategy of talking his ears off has a lot more upside. The idea that being nice suggests weakness is pretty silly in a political environment -- *extremists* get ignored... how much time would you spend with dead seal man?

Ben

Read back more and you'll see I never said I would have acted the same as calbear.

but it seems to me that you'd encourage it...

Adam+1 = iNEEDtoDOaWACK-OFFhandGESTURErealSOON!! 

Just Do It!   

       

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He grabbed his radio and threatened me with a fine by the DFG."

Now if Cal Bear did NOT insult him in the first place, then I'm almost sure that none of this would have happened. Please remember that Cal Bear started the negative verbal remarks....Cal Bear later admitted that he went went a little too far....and I salute him for that.

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You say I'm judgemental and suggest I breathe deeply and relax. So I ask you, At what point will you snap... and say STOP! SHUT UP JERRY! GET OUT OF MY FACE MAN! You've told calbear what to do, you've told me what to do, when will you tell Jerry?

QUESTION: How often does the typical fisherman get approaced by a "Jerry" ?

 If Jerry approached me in a polite and friendly manner, I'd respond politely = "well Jerry, this is the first time I heard sbout this rule. I did not see a sign saying it's illegal for me to be fishing near the sealion. Can you please show me some documentation regarding the said rule....perhaps I can post this ruling on my online fishing club so all my buddies will know about it...if in fact the rules does exist"

Now if Jerry was being rude to begin with and verbally assulted me...then my response would have been different.

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I look up to you guys that have been fishing for a long time and have been members of NCKA longer than myself. I look to the best fishermen on here to see what they're saying & doing to stop anti-fishing practices. Show me what you've got. Let's keep this discussion going. Thank you very much. jim

I don't say much when it comes to politics BUT I DO what I can to stop anti-fishing practices.....how?

- Being one of the founding members of NCKA, I can truly say that I've done my share by getting my sponsors (Hook1,Ocean Kayaks and Aquan Sports) to donate prizes on MANY of our kayak fishing tournament raffles. The money raised from these raffles were given directly to Coastside Fishing Club to battle the MLPA. (If you want numbers, ask Bill,Chucke,Erik Kunz and Sean / SBD)

- And for the record, I did attend a meeting last year (with a few other NCKA members) that was held in Pacifica.

- And I Also want to add this = I work in an industry filled with MANY enviros and I deal with 'em almost everyday. Scuba Divers (mostly students) and some Sea Kayakers that I have come in contact with sometimes give me the smirk look when I tell them that I'm an avid kayak fisherman and an aspiring spear fisherman. How do I react to this? Well, the last thing I'd do is give 'em the bird. I simply tell 'em why and how I do it and believe it or not, I get them thinking about it and the respect follows.

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A few years back, ChuckE and I were invited by Western Sea Kayakers to do a kayak fishing seminar in one of their monthly meetings. Chuck and I thought that there would be minimal interest because we had assumed that they were mostly the "save-the-seal-types" But we kept an open mind and showed up at the meeting with our fully rigged fishing kayaks. I'd say 80 percent of the members stayed after their regular meeting and showed interest (and respect) to our love of being out in the water and catching dinner while we were at it.

Why am I sharing this story? Cause if we can be open minded and respectful, we can open more doors.

Your right about that Ben. He didn't say and it doesn't really matter. I edited my mistake. I believe that right now the real "extemists", that want the max-near total closures, are actually getting all the attention. We, fishermen and divers, are the ones being ignored. Remember, we spent all day with Mr.DeadSeal. The guy wouldn't shut up. jim

Mooch, thank you for sharing all that you've done. I truly appreciate all that you've done and will continue to do for kayakfishing. Do you think there is a place for someone like me within NCKA? If you don't please tell me why? I am not saying I will delete myself but some of you guys seem to think that only kindness will win the day for kayakfishing. Keep in mind we just lost big time. In all the other sports I participate in and also in my work life it seems to be a flowing balance of both kindness and ruthlessness that puts people on the podium and wins bids/jobs. If I paddled out into a busy lineup on my surfboard and I wasn't just a little bit aggressive.....I wouldn't get even one wave. I am not saying to be a wave hog, but we kayakfishers should be aggressively attempting to take our turn, before we loose our right to paddle out. Thanks to everyone that keeps participating in this discussion and I'm sorry if I went a little overboard on the satirical scenarios I posted up. jim

My post back to Adam was purely just joking around. I thought 10 emoticons would have indicated that.