Kayak Police Patrol

Why is the " conservation effort"  so often put where it helps the least?

Sealions haven't been in trouble [ if ever] since pissed off Portugese salmon fishermen were shooting them back in the 50's and 60's for stealing their salmon.
"Protecting" furbags off the wharf?

They are becoming a pest actually...as well as a semi-domesticated animal. Protected from the real world in these wharf areas they often lose their natural behavior and become overcrowded beggers.
If too abundant they will finally bring in the big sharks to weed a few out. Nice image, big sharks off the local wharfs near swimming beaches.

 I mean, ya gotta pass up 500 real issues to get to that one.
This kind of tokenism may just be recreational feel-good therapy for a guy w/ too much spare time on his hands.
Maybe he could go help "save" rabbits in Australia or alligators in Florida.
 
I took my kid fishing off Santa Cruz wharf the other day and...well the sea lions own it!
They take up permanent residence and live on the docks! People walk right up to them w/in a few feet. I didn't see any "jr. wannabie semi gov't. greens" there warning the people not to stress the poor things.

I grew up spearfishing of the breakwater and there are more sealions there now then ever. They don't need another layer of protection from us unless we want to teach them that freeloading is natural.

If there is a decent, conservation impulse in some adults who want to help do something worthwhile, they owe it to themselves to look beyond the kindergarten level of environmentalism and study coastal development, marine pollution, agribusiness siltuation and pesticide use, water diversion and commercial fisheries, corporate manipulation of environmental issues thru grant giving and withholding....etc.

But, paddling about in calm water looking for eco-brownie points sounds like more fun.
 Steve
" Semi jaded leftist, liberal and life long environmentalist."
 

  

+1 Ravensblack
                       -1 Abking
+1 Eric B
+1 Sin Coast                       But I still like you guys anyway.
+1 FishFarmer
+1 Bajareefer
-                      -1 Dave W
+1 Agarcia
+1 You, if you are willing to stand up for your right to fish. Thank you Bro! jim

P.S. Maybe the rest of you can come to the next DFG meeting and pass out beers to all the enviro loons and their supporters in the various govt agencies.

"I'm not going to take it, NO I'm not gonna take it, I'm not gonna take it anymore!". Twisted Sister/big hair heavy metal band.  

Redyak, my desire to be civil does NOT mean I disagree with the setiment towards NOAA volunteers.  I appreciate your passion, but we'll just have to disagree about the methods of communication.

-Allen

Allen, I appreciate your passion for kayakfishing as well. When it comes to that anyone that has fished with or around me knows I am a hapless newb and I'm cool with that. I realize my "methods of communication" may chap a few hides around here but I'm cool with that as well.
 The other side, anti-fishing enviro groups and their fellow travellers within govt agencies, just won big time. They utilized disingenuous propaganda and custom built rhetoric to sway even some fishermen and divers to their side. It's my belief that one of the reasons that occurred was many fishermen's need to be friendly and respectful of everyone, even these anti-fishing groups of people.
 I was one of these fishermen and I was not prepared, for example, when Commissioner Rogers threw down his egotistical challenge at the last meeting. No one else was prepared or acted against his challenge either. What methods of communication would you suggest to try to keep additional areas from closing?

 Personally I say civility has failed and it's time to utilize our own "this is the ugly truth" statements and custom built slogans to stem the tide. Excessively vulgar no, but a lot louder, angrier, and on the offensive hell yeah.

No one should walk away from any future DFG meetings without their ears pounding from the onslaught of mad as hell fishermen and divers laying their hearts on the line to stop this "enviro wet dream" from progressing. IMO. jim

Oh and Allen, I do not want to disagree with anyone on here. I do want to discuss and from that build a consensus as to what we as kayakfishermen need to say and do in order to keep on fishing without losing any more waters. Will you or anyone on here help me in that endeavor? jim

let's back up a little bit and see what the problem was to begin with and perhaps stop getting carried away with this....

I was fishing on the ocean side of the jetty when some idiot in a NOAA National Marine Sanctuary kayak paddles up to me and says," Hi my names Jerry, I'm with National Blah Blah". I cut him off in mid sentence and said I don't care who you are and I didn't ask your name. Well he was a little surprised by my reaction and continued to say I needed to be 100' from the jetty because sea lions were on it. I told him to piss off and called him a volunteer retard. He grabbed his radio threatening me with a fine by the DFG. My silent response was a wack off motion with my hand. That sent him over the edge. Much to my amusement. I told him to go hump some tourists leg. Has anyone ever been harassed by these dipsh!ts?

bottom line here is "Jerry" introduced himself politely but was then cut off in mid sentence and verbally abused by calbear. NOW THINK HARD....was that really necessary? Like Allen and some others had mentioned earlier, it was the method of communication that was in question PERIOD.

P.S. Maybe the rest of you can come to the next DFG meeting and pass out beers to all the enviro loons and their supporters in the various govt agencies.

This "organization" is actively engaged in curtailing your fishing rights and I'm sure your "killing them with kindness strategy" will be greatly appreciated by them, Julie Packard, Nature Conservancy, Audubon, Sierra Club, Bay Keepers, and all of the other well financed organizations that want to limit and put an end to your fishing.

But I understand..... it's a lot easier for you all to maintain the "it's nice to be nice" vibe. It takes courage to stand up, get nasty, resist, and fight for your rights. It's a lot easier to roll over, give up, and succumb to "the inevitable". You didn't really want to keep fishing anyway? jim

+1 You, if you are willing to stand up for your right to fish. Thank you Bro! jim

Jim you sound very frustrated and pissed off.....and it seems like your being too judgemental. Take a deep breath, relax and realize we are on your side when it come to the politics. But some of us here simply don't agree with ONCE AGAIN = "the method of communication" I believe that if "Jerry" was treated with some respect TO BEGIN WITH, then maybe he would have not responded in such a way. Who knows....Jerry may even be a fellow fisherman who simply volunteers his free time to educate people on the water. DO we really know his politics? I think not and I would try not to assume the worse.

It's my belief that one of the reasons that occurred was many fishermen's need to be friendly and respectful of everyone, even these anti-fishing groups of people.

Jim, how is it that you think respectful conversation was the problem?

Thanks mooch, once again we're letting "passion" get ahead of reason.  As soon as we get labeled "loonies" - which is where we are headed when we let emotion get the better of us-- then we're immediately dis-credited. That means you lose your seat at the table or any hope of getting one...

 "Killing them with kindness" does not mean inviting someone out for beers. It means being respectful in your tone, language, and demeanor. It is far more powerful to tell someone to "f off" in a way that leaves that person thinking that they had a positive engagement, and that they should question their role or approach or even the very thing they are doing. 
This is what the "enviros" are doing to you, but you don't even recognize it.

 "Killing them with kindness" does not mean inviting someone out for beers. It means being respectful in your tone, language, and demeanor. It is far more powerful to tell someone to "f off" in a way that leaves that person thinking that they had a positive engagement, and that they should question their role or approach or even the very thing they are doing. 
This is what the "enviros" are doing to you, but you don't even recognize it.

OK, maybe CalBear should have let the guy finish his sentence however I get the feeling that CalBear does understand that the "enviros" are telling us to F off and he DOES recognize it.  I guess the questions is this: how many times do we have to get rolled before we can tell them to F off in a direct manner?  We can sit at the table till we are blue in the face, but if "daddy enviro group" gets to make all the decisions, then one might ask whats the point?  Thats not giving in to fate, but acknowledging what doesnt work.

One other thing is that fishing in Monterey and PG, you do seem to get more than the normal amount of "fisherman bad" mentality.  From the dive boats trying to run you over, or throw you off the reef you are fishing first, passers by who tell you with a look of disgust that you should not catch "endangered rockfish" or the people who scream at you that you are fishing in a preserve while pointing at a sign that says you can take finfish.  After a while when they start wagging their finger at you, you start to feel less diplomatic

After a while when they start wagging their finger at you, you start to feel less diplomatic

I'd say that's why even the most diplomatic of us can have a good laugh reading CalBear's report. Public opinion swings like a big, old, slow, fat pendulum. 30 years ago it was the "enviros" that got ignored relative to fish stocks (at least in the NW). I don't know what the story is now, but a 12-15 years ago only a few dozen salmon (I forget which variety) made the run up the Columbia -- it's 2+ miles wide -- as opposed to the huge numbers that used to. Then reports of collapsing fishing grounds all over the world. Salmon problems here, etc... So NOW everyone is in crisis management mode and some stupidity has climbed on the freight train right along with some good policy (ie, F&G rockfish management).

When you think about it, we didn't miss 2XA by much. Until the FGC president stepped down and was replaced by an IPA ringer it was a coin toss, as I understand it. And that was with precious little input from this group until the bitter end (including me).  I suspect even Rogers would have voted for 2xA if the BRTF had recommended it.

So, ya, we do need to keep our place at the table, and we need to sit down there in bigger numbers sooner. The only real alternative is mass civil disobedience. Or maybe suing over questions about 1) Benninghoven's appointment  2) Sutton's conflict of interest  3) Funding/Management -- but those seem like long shots.

Ben

e2g +1
FishFarmer +1

"Jerry" is the problem. As he got into his kayak, paddled out getting closer to where the seals were, as he "stroked" up to calbear. He was and will continue to be The Problem.

My first post on this thread I questioned whether the whole story was factual or like all good fish stories a little exagerated. If calbear actually said 100% of what he wrote then he's lucky Jerry didn't jump out of his yak and throw down and they both could have got hurt and or arrested. But I won't, after the fact, tell calbear what he should have said. Please don't answer to that calbear as that would take away from the good laugh that many of us got.

Ask yourselves if you want to be forced to stop fishing everytime a seal pops up?

You say I'm judgemental and suggest I breathe deeply and relax. So I ask you, At what point will you snap... and say STOP! SHUT UP JERRY! GET OUT OF MY FACE MAN! You've told calbear what to do, you've told me what to do, when will you tell Jerry?

Or do you guys believe that I am more of a problem than Jerry?

I look up to you guys that have been fishing for a long time and have been members of NCKA longer than myself. I look to the best fishermen on here to see what they're saying & doing to stop anti-fishing practices. Show me what you've got. Let's keep this discussion going. Thank you very much. jim

You are very persuasive when you want to be, Jim.

IMO we need people like you, and we need people like Mooch, too.  Even the most extreme of us have more in common than differences.

If we're all militant and leary of strangers, we're not very good ambassadours of the sport, (and IMO recruitment of new members is key to our survival).  But we also need guys like you to keep our eyes on the big picture.

[quote author = redyak]"Jerry" is the problem. As he got into his kayak, paddled out getting closer to where the seals were, as he "stroked" up to calbear. He was and will continue to be The Problem.[/quote]

I'll add this to my "respectful conversation" question...

How is it that you see "Jerry" (I guess this is now code for Jr Warden or similar at this point ) as the problem?

I see him as a by-product of current "public" perceptions.

Ben

Ben to answer your question we go back to the minutiae of "the story". "He grabbed his radio and threatened me with a fine by the DFG." Insert obscene gesture by calbear then. "This sent him over the edge."

Someone mentioned before that these volunteer docents may have a place politely telling tourists not to pet, feed, or harrass the seals. But IMO when they approach a fisherman that is doing none of the above, overstep their capacity by threatening, and then completely loose their cool..... then they are The Problem.

If Jerry can't take some verbal abuse and keep his cool without resorting to threatening he is the problem. I wonder how many legit tourists this guy has managed to piss off and ruin their Monterey vacations? I grew up in Monterey and those seals are as domesticated as it gets. This aint the Galapagos. Does anyone here believe simply fishing should be considered seal harrassment?

When it comes down to a beef between one of my NCKA bro's and a member of any anti-fishing organization..... well I'll do my best to side with the fisherman even if he did blow his top and pass out the verbal slaps. Remember he was minding his own business while The Volunteer was intruding upon his day, and due to Jerry's actions he ruined calbears fishing day. That is wrong. Jerry is The Problem. I put the burden of the outcome on Jerry. These volunteers should know their place..... which is to stay out of our face. Unless we bust out 'da clubs'. jim

Adam+1 = iNEEDtoDOaWACK-OFFhandGESTURErealSOON!!