Whats your take in Immigration Reform?

Yeah we do. We have borders on our nation that need to be protected.
And they aren't. And our country is failing it's citizens by not securing these borders.

My oaths are to the United States of American and the Constitution of same. Not that hippy shit mentality saying it's not our place to keep people out. This country is badass and needs a good housecleaning to make it more badass.
Not saying to kick out 11 million undocumented illegal aliens, just try not to let another 11 million in.

Anytime contractors hire illegal aliens, no matter what the heritage is, Is against the law. Plain and simple. They don't lower their hourly rate to give you a break either. These are the real criminals. They exploit cheap wages. They hurt the skilled laborer. Give the honest hard working law abiding people who want to make it in this country a chance. Jail the motherfuckers who reap vast profits from them while hurting the family who was born here.

Exactly!

There is too much blame put on the person who is fighting for better life and not enough put on those who exploit them. After all, i don't think immigrants are putting guns to company owners heads when asking for a job.

It's the company owners who drop the wages of those "great" paying jobs who are responsible here.

+1

I have no problem with immigrants, illegal or otherwise, as long as they are hot women.

I so agree.

ever since mankind climbed out of the trees -we have been on the move....to look at any person who by sense of determination changes their location on the globe as not abiding by one law or another that was made by people who got there before them....is short sighted....people migrate... ...we all live here....think about it... saying things like...wasting resources...free ride type thinking...when there is ample money to build bombs and topple leaders and spy on ourselves...and buy hard on pills..is insane thinking and selfish....anyone on this forum not have enough to eat..or shelter...or food for tomorrow...
We dont own this land under our feet any more than we own the air or the breeze...and we have no right to tell any human where they can or can not go with their lives...think about it...brainwashed

For the most I agree. And this debate over immigration has been going on since been franklin warned us of the dirty lazy germans that were taking over the country.
But, we do live in a civilized society so there is a need to have a rational way to deal with immigration. The bush adm. After 9/11 changed the game drastically and is driving away extremely talented folks from other countries. People that come here and trained in our top schools and institutions that want to stay cant because of the draconian immigration laws post 9/11 (my brother in law from india educated at one of the top business schools in philedelphia, and without my sister would be unable to work here. We are losing a lot of talent and that talent is necassary if you want to stay at the top. As far as "illegals", 125 years ago when my grandfather dodge the bismark drafts there wasnt an illrgal problem because everyone was allowed in. Now it seems the sons of these immigrants want to stop the very american tradition that allowed us the abiliyy to all come here and thrive.

Back to neil:
Some get stoned,
Some get strange,
But sooner or later
It all gets real
Walk on

Furthermore, I don't blame the businesses that use illegal labor to keep up with the jonses. I do however blame the lying two-faced, backstabbing,no good,self-serving cacksookers who parade their chickenshit asses through the hallowed halls of congress pretending to represent the people. I don't suppose too many lawyers have lost their jobs to illegal immigrants.

The idea that Northern Europeans came to California to conquest is wrong. Before the gold rush problems of coexistence with Mexicans was a non issue, atrocities against native people not withstanding. Some of my ancestors were among the pioneers. They were neither greedy nor violent. I wouldn't be working for peanuts today if they were greedy. Nor would I have a clear conscience if they committed acts of violence, which I do. Long live the social contract, democracy and the rule of law.  Too many people is the problem and many who haven't any concern for their fellow man.
-Amos

Wow! Nice read.. Heres my thoughts and some statistics input...

John Legal vs Juan Illegal (Quoted from Yahoo and Google)

John Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Juan Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 in cash "under the table"....

Ready? Now pay attention....

John Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; John Legal now has $31,231.00.

Juan Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200 per year.Juan Illegal pays no taxes. Juan Illegal now has $31,200.00.

John Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. John Legal now has $24,031.00.

Juan Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Juan Illegal still has $31,200.00.

John Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. John Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000..00 per year. John Legal now has $18,031.00.

Juan Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Juan Illegal still has $31,200.00.

John Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. John Legal now has 9,631.00.

Juan Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Juan Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Juan Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

John Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. John Legal now has $7,231.00.

Juan Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

John Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Juan Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

John Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Juan Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

John Legal's and Juan Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. John Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Juan Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Juan Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. John Legal's children go home.

Now, when they reach college age, John Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though John has been paying for state schools through his taxes, while Juan Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

John Legal and Juan Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but John paid for them and Juan did not pay.

THOUGH This all true there are other aspects to consider regarding economic impact:
Let me provide some statistics. ( I apologize my English isn’t  good “Immigrant”)

There are 11 Million Illegal immigrants in the United States. If these 11 millions will get penalized for minimum of 2k to become legal, then that’s 22 Billion dollars that can be used as resource to secure the border, hire more DHS agents. With exceptions of those who commit crimes should be deported immediately no trials or whatsoever, misdemeanor should be count under strike policies 3 strikes will be process for deportation.

If the country decided to deport all these 11 Millions, it requires vast resources, facilities, and tax payer’s money. If the governments spent $2,000 per person that’s 22 Billion out. Then, there will be 11 million jobs vacated that US citizens will not take.

Now lets go back to John Legal and Juan Illegal, If Juan Illegal will become legal, you think Juan Illegal (now Legal) will still ask for $15/hr? Go back and do the math. Despite Juan Illegal now legal he is now has to compete in the Salary he makes, But John Legal will have more advantages since he has experience, employment history and he is White

What is feasible? Legalize Illegals or Deport?

Good post Darius.

Nailed it Darius!!! 

Seems to me to be an unfortunate, inaccurate, and one sided portrayal of the issues.

Also seems like you had a foregone conclusion you wanted to present when you asked your question,

but that's all just my opinion.

Wow! Nice read.. Heres my thoughts and some statistics input...

John Legal vs Juan Illegal

John Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Juan Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 in cash "under the table"....

Ready? Now pay attention....

John Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; John Legal now has $31,231.00.

Juan Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200 per year.Juan Illegal pays no taxes. Juan Illegal now has $31,200.00.

John Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. John Legal now has $24,031.00.

Juan Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Juan Illegal still has $31,200.00.

John Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. John Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000..00 per year. John Legal now has $18,031.00.

Juan Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Juan Illegal still has $31,200.00.

John Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. John Legal now has 9,631.00.

Juan Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Juan Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Juan Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

John Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. John Legal now has $7,231.00.

Juan Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

John Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Juan Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

John Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Juan Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

John Legal's and Juan Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. John Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Juan Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Juan Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. John Legal's children go home.

Now, when they reach college age, John Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though John has been paying for state schools through his taxes, while Juan Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

John Legal and Juan Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but John paid for them and Juan did not pay.

THOUGH This all true there are other aspects to consider regarding economic impact:
Let me provide some statistics. ( I apologize my English isn’t  good “Immigrant”)

There are 11 Million Illegal immigrants in the United States. If these 11 millions will get penalized for minimum of 2k to become legal, then that’s 22 Billion dollars that can be used as resource to secure the border, hire more DHS agents. With exceptions of those who commit crimes should be deported immediately no trials or whatsoever, misdemeanor should be count under strike policies 3 strikes will be process for deportation.

If the country decided to deport all these 11 Millions, it requires vast resources, facilities, and tax payer’s money. If the governments spent $2,000 per person that’s 22 Billion out. Then, there will be 11 million jobs vacated that US citizens will not take.

Now lets go back to John Legal and Juan Illegal, If Juan Illegal will become legal, you think Juan Illegal (now Legal) will still ask for $15/hr? Go back and do the math. Despite Juan Illegal now legal he is now has to compete in the Salary he makes, But John Legal will have more advantages since he has experience, employment history and he is White

What is feasible? Legalize Illegals or Deport?

Sorry, but this issimply inaccurate. The Social Security Administration. reports that 75 % of illegal immigrants are on formal payroll and paying taxes mainly by using fraudulent SS#. Theres also many that have individual filing #s from the irs (the irs goes not report these to Dept of Homeland Security. Of course the illegals get very few of the benefits of paying taxes. In addition, they also pay sales tax, property tax via rents.

The idea that Northern Europeans came to California to conquest is wrong. Before the gold rush problems of coexistence with Mexicans was a non issue, atrocities against native people not withstanding. Some of my ancestors were among the pioneers. They were neither greedy nor violent. I wouldn't be working for peanuts today if they were greedy. Nor would I have a clear conscience if they committed acts of violence, which I do. Long live the social contract, democracy and the rule of law.  Too many people is the problem and many who haven't any concern for their fellow man.
-Amos

Atrocities against the natives was the conquest. Northern Europeans went all over the globe to conquest, including California. One of the methods is moving the pioneers in and displacing the native population.

Wow! Nice read.. Heres my thoughts and some statistics input...

John Legal vs Juan Illegal

Your thoughts and statistics look familiar. I've read this scenario a few times over the years.

Google " John Legal vs Juan Illegal "

Try canceling your auto insurance and see what happens.

I could only imagine what if I don't write that check to the state for 1,700.00 in two weeks.