Kayak Wars Teams 2014 *updates page 1*

Incidentally caught that is

Seems fine under the kayak wars rules. Lobby oz for a change if you don't like it.

If I have my go pro on and catch a yellow eye while the camera is running, in the process I have taken many many still frames of the fish. If I RETAIN that fish for a photo then that's a nono. I looked at Robs coho pics and while I can tell the second one is definitely a coho, I can also see that the fish was netted both times. Clear as a bell in possession when that fish could be shaken off at the side of the boat. Both of the so called coho were being retained from my point of view. If I bother to net, then lay a fish out on the trough to measure, it is retained and in possession. This is why its against the law to boat oversize sturgeon now. If I was such a bad ass fisherman anyway, why would I even start this bullshit?

On our rockfish opener in Sonoma on the first I caught the largest Sonoma county rockfish Ive ever caught. A huge, massive yelloweye. Probably guessing around 24-25 inches long. My camera buried in the rod pod. I admired the fish and released it boatside. I held it alongside my leg in the water while I removed the jig. Lifted it a bit to guess the weight and off it went.

Again, your (collectively) personal definition of "retained" and subsequent offending of your sensibilities is no way to run things. "Retained" is undefined in the regs. The dictionary says-

re·tain
riˈtān/
verb
continue to have (something); keep possession of.


So the regs say coho can't be retained. Retention and possession are not the same thing, as the dictionary definition says. You can temporarily possess something. The regs don't say anything about possessing coho. The inset box on page 95 of the regs says that you can't do what Rob did, but that box isn't a regulation or a law, and I'm not convinced it is correct. I'll keep looking cuz now I want to know.

If I have my go pro on and catch a yellow eye while the camera is running, in the process I have taken many many still frames of the fish. If I RETAIN that fish for a photo then that's a nono. I looked at Robs coho pics and while I can tell the second one is definitely a coho, I can also see that the fish was netted both times. Clear as a bell in possession when that fish could be shaken off at the side of the boat. Both of the so called coho were being retained from my point of view. If I bother to net, then lay a fish out on the trough to measure, it is retained and in possession. This is why its against the law to boat oversize sturgeon now. If I was such a bad ass fisherman anyway, why would I even start this bullshit?

On our rockfish opener in Sonoma on the first I caught the largest Sonoma county rockfish Ive ever caught. A huge, massive yelloweye. Probably guessing around 24-25 inches long. My camera buried in the rod pod. I admired the fish and released it boatside. I held it alongside my leg in the water while I removed the jig. Lifted it a bit to guess the weight and off it went.

Did you have your invisible cloaking device turned on since I didn't see you out there?  The 2nd coho was netted, the first wasn't.  I wasn't able to determine the second one as a coho till it was in the net.  It had a hook in its gill and would NOT sit still.  Once I saw it was a coho I removed the net while trying to unhook it in the water, but it wasn't happening easily so I figured I might as well get a quick trough pic since I had to grab it by the tail and bring it to my lap to unhook it.  Next time your fishing around the boats or on a charter you will see them net cohos and hear them flop around or even see guys looking at it for a while to determine what it is.  As for the yellow eyes, they tend to need help going back down so getting a quick pic on the trough when before sending it down isn't going to hurt anything.  Not to mention, I don't know how many fish I have sent down at Albion, Shelter Cove or Ocean Cove caught by NCKA members that just leave them floating for birds to peck at.

Its drama like this and many other threads that make me think twice about why I even bother with being a member or contributing to this forum anymore.

If I have my go pro on and catch a yellow eye while the camera is running, in the process I have taken many many still frames of the fish. If I RETAIN that fish for a photo then that's a nono. I looked at Robs coho pics and while I can tell the second one is definitely a coho, I can also see that the fish was netted both times. Clear as a bell in possession when that fish could be shaken off at the side of the boat. Both of the so called coho were being retained from my point of view. If I bother to net, then lay a fish out on the trough to measure, it is retained and in possession. This is why its against the law to boat oversize sturgeon now. If I was such a bad ass fisherman anyway, why would I even start this bullshit?

On our rockfish opener in Sonoma on the first I caught the largest Sonoma county rockfish Ive ever caught. A huge, massive yelloweye. Probably guessing around 24-25 inches long. My camera buried in the rod pod. I admired the fish and released it boatside. I held it alongside my leg in the water while I removed the jig. Lifted it a bit to guess the weight and off it went.

Did you have your invisible cloaking device turned on since I didn't see you out there?  The 2nd coho was netted, the first wasn't.  I wasn't able to determine the second one as a coho till it was in the net.  It had a hook in its gill and would NOT sit still.  Once I saw it was a coho I removed the net while trying to unhook it in the water, but it wasn't happening easily so I figured I might as well get a quick trough pic since I had to grab it by the tail and bring it to my lap to unhook it.  Next time your fishing around the boats or on a charter you will see them net cohos and hear them flop around or even see guys looking at it for a while to determine what it is.  As for the yellow eyes, they tend to need help going back down so getting a quick pic on the trough when before sending it down isn't going to hurt anything.  Not to mention, I don't know how many fish I have sent down at Albion, Shelter Cove or Ocean Cove caught by NCKA members that just leave them floating for birds to peck at.

Its drama like this and many other threads that make me think twice about why I even bother with being a member or contributing to this forum anymore.

lol. You participate because you are a competitive guy and want to win. You also like to brag. This is the place for both. Untwist your panties bro.

lol. You participate because you are a competitive guy and want to win. You also like to brag. This is the place for both. Untwist your panties bro.

  Just trolling for a response

See you tomorrow morning OTW it should be another blast with many hookups like Wednesday.

Just an FYI,
Page 95 of the CDFW Ocean Sport Fishing Regulations;
"The retention of any Coho Salmon is PROHIBITED in all California ocean fisheries. Please take the time to correctly identify each Salmon cought BEFORE removing it from the water."
Yes it is in the rule book, and yes YOU the greatest salmon angler on this planet should know the rules.

It's in the rulebook but it's not a rule, at least not that I have found. That is an inset box with no citation to authority except ESA, and if you read closely it says that California coho are ESA. We are talking about hatchery coho. So far as I can tell so far that box is not entirely accurate. I've stopped looking tonight, will probably have time to research on Sunday.

Hot button issue!!!!!, and with cautious trepidation I weigh in…...

I don't know if it's technically legal per the regs to momentarily keep and photograph a fish that you are not allowed to retain.  Common sense tells me that the restrictions on retention are there to protect the fish species in question, so I defer to the fishes best interest.  I would be disappointed to have to "pass" on the points, but I would shake it off or something like Craig described.

The slippery slope as I see it- If one is OK with doing this to ANY fish you can't retain, then EVERY fish EVERY time can count towards Kayak Wars point totals- seasons/retention regs be damned?    I highly doubt the contest organizers intended that, but as competitors in Kayak Wars do we want this for our competition?   We create it after all.  Where is the line?  For me the only easily defined and logical line is retention.


https://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/oceansalmon.asp

Aaron
Junior Member Team Bridgeport

I'm not really a competitor so it's really no skin off to me. I just think that the rules need to be applied consistently so people have a fair chance to compete. There's far too many possibilities here.  Salmon incidentally caught with barbed hooks? Rockfish caught beyond depth limits? Rockfish caught while fishing halibut with two rods?

I'm not really a competitor so it's really no skin off to me. I just think that the rules need to be applied consistently so people have a fair chance to compete. There's far too many possibilities here.  Salmon incidentally caught with barbed hooks? Rockfish caught beyond depth limits? Rockfish caught while fishing halibut with two rods?

I agree.

Aaron

I'm not really a competitor so it's really no skin off to me. I just think that the rules need to be applied consistently so people have a fair chance to compete. There's far too many possibilities here.  Salmon incidentally caught with barbed hooks? Rockfish caught beyond depth limits? Rockfish caught while fishing halibut with two rods?

I agree.

Aaron

I have shook off chinook salmon this year that I could have scored.  I see your points and most of the time 95%, I do unhook cohos in the water. Like I said the second one was hooked in the gill and it did not want to come out easily and my judgement lead me to bringing it in my lap so I could remove the hook without ripping its gill.  Again I say watch the power boaters and see how many silvers they net and how long it takes them to release it or better yet how many of them keep silvers.

(I heard you on the radio BTW)

So you were out there fishing?  Where are your salmon?  I will catch a few for you tomorrow.  Heck if the bite is good enough I just may fill the rest of our salmon quota tomorrow if I don't hear the pac halibut calling me since I have fresh butt juice soaked salmon bellies ready to go. 7 salmon is the goal tomorrow then.  It wouldn't be the first time I have brought that many salmon to my kayak in one trip.  

Time to get some sleep as it seems like a competition on who can be on the water first.  LOL

Rob,

I was not out fishing where you were yesterday, I would have liked to be chasing salmon however-regrettably I had to work.  Therefore I have no salmon to show you.  Sorry for the confusion with my "I heard you on the radio" comment.  That was actually directed at Craig.  On June 1st, I heard him catch and honorably release his Yelloweye he mentioned earlier in the thread.

Time to get some sleep as it seems like a competition on who can be on the water first.  LOL

Not for me.  To be honest, recently it has started to feel like a competition where seemingly obvious rules are not followed by some participants.  Rock on, and do whats right for you.  Thanks for clarifying your position.

Good luck to you today, and be safe.

Aaron

 Since my return to the site, I have made a choice to stay clear of these types of discussions and any threads involving some of the participants in its more recent direction. But, I am a casual player in the KW game and it now has my interest.
I also chose to take a look at the NCKA KW team fish, but before I go any further please allow me to cut and paste the rule that I believe is most applicable. #9

ALL Fish 24" and under MUST be photographed with a measuring device showing proof of posted length. This rule also applies to ALL fish being submitted for TROPHY or RECORD Status. The only exception is for Billfish, Sharks, and Tarpon. All other species must abide by this rule. Failure to comply by this result will result in deletion/modification/downgrade of size. Repeated offenses may result in disqualification for the angler in Kayak Wars for the year.

All fish 24" or less MUST have the entire fish in the photo. For larger fish, please make the best possible attempt to include the whole fish along with an object for scale (ex. ruler, water bottle, or boga grips).

If Kayak Wars organizers feel the submissions are questionable because of unlclear photos, inaccurate size reported, poor attempt at getting the whole fish in the photo, or any other reason leading to the submission not being properly eligible, then the submission may be deleted and the angler warned. To prevent this disqualification of a catch, take several pictures (clear photos) of each fish to help validate your catch.

For ALL fish 36" and under, you MUST take photos of live fish at/around time of catch. Dead fish photos for this mentioned size will be disqualified and deleted (with some minor exceptions by KW organizers). Large species (over 36 inches in length) may be submitted as dead fish as long as all other criteria are met. In all other cases you must photograph and submit live fish. If your catch does not meet this criteria it will automatically be deleted without warning. You must have your kayak or a fellow kayak in a picture to verify authenticity of kayak fishing. Or a sequence of photos from other fish pictures uploaded must conclude that you were kayak fishing.

Any submissions on land such as 'grass/lawn/yard' which cannot prove the validity of being caught in the kayak may likely result in deletion.


Ok, now that we all have an equal reference, lets take a look at a few of the NCKA submissions.

Let's start with my personal favorite.
This picture was used for 3 separate entries. None are measured/photographed and all are dead.
These fish totaled 100 points and the cab was a "trophy" class fish.
Im also curious about the dates. GS8 catches?



Second place goes to this nearly criminal fingering of the measurement AND it still didn't reach 24.



Short a few points? double up!  Maybe cover the red spot with your hand next time.




Rules are clear on lawn shots. No



Dead as Dilinger



Add these to the off limits rockfish entries and other "questionable" entries and things do start develop a odd aroma.

 I should add that there are 2 members of this team that I respect. RacinRob and I have some time on the water and I imagine that we will have more. ISOF is someone that I haven't had a chance to fish with yet but I certainly appreciate how he conducts himself here and absolutely respect the talent to find the fish he searches for.  It is that respect that makes these questionable entries so surprising.

Maybe this is an educational issue? Or maybe a fear based response?
Who knows?
But what I think the really important question is
Does a team calling itself NCKA represent the NCKA club?  Taking up that moniker should require some responsibility to keep the No Class out of NCKA.