Gauntlet thrown down....Pedal vs paddle ;)

Sounds like an endurance marathon! Tigerfish? Ravensblack? Salty? Solsrf1?

"there was a point made about dealing with the yak off the water, and that is something often overlooked. My ideal yak would weigh less than 50 pounds."


The PA14 is a pain to lug around. Its heavy as all hell...I have a system for loading it to the top of my truck. That part is very easy for me to do...really a one man job - one end at a time. I'm tall at 6'2" which certainly helps me load it. Pulling it through sand is the worse, but now that Hobie has the new larger 'beach' wheels, I might invest in them...

-Murf

Sounds like an endurance marathon! Tigerfish? Ravensblack? Salty? Solsrf1?

What are you trying to do Joe...? You forgot Kris/elongatus.  I'll race Craig anyday  jk?

I have both a hobie and a tarpon.... And as I say to those not on a hobie...at some point you stop paddling and I just keep on pedaling along...usually while having my sandwich or having a beverage

Are we comparing the mirage drive to paddling, or that aircraft carrier to a kayak?

if it is mirage drive to paddling how about an adventure or revo against a prowler or Tarpon...that way drag, etc is roughly the same.

if we're comparing the Aircraft Carrier to kayak, then my money's on the paddler.

I have both a hobie and a tarpon.... And as I say to those not on a hobie...at some point you stop paddling and I just keep on pedaling along...usually while having my sandwich or having a beverage

Shhhhhhh...you're giving away the secret (j/k)    Don't forget about taking pictures of the beautiful scenery or whales while pedaling.

I have both a hobie and a tarpon.... And as I say to those not on a hobie...at some point you stop paddling and I just keep on pedaling along...usually while having my sandwich or having a beverage

And the paddler is playing around rock gardens and surf while you are eating a stale sandwich that somehow just doesnt taste good anymore.

I think that the mirage drive system is really good and for sustained travel far outweighs paddling. SteveS kicked my ass on a calm day out to the pumphouse on his AI. The PA is probably the worst use of a good thing.

I tried to send the URL pertaining to this topic about  a two week voyage of three sinks and a Hobie Adventure but couldn't. If one searches for Hobie Adventure as a sea kayak the article should come up. An experienced sea kayaker used an Adventure to make the trip from Wilson's Pt in Australia to Tasmania together with three sea kayaks but had a hard time keeping up. The article nicely illuminates points being made on this subject. Hull design for a given purpose is key for comparisons of different yaks especially as pertains to maintaining speed. The Adventure, and I own one, is great for fishing and traveling offshore in most aspects excluding harsh surf landings. It really shines while pedaling into wind and current while rock fish jigging and as a sot pedal craft is  as fast a mass production craft that one can buy but the energy needed to power it at a high cruise speed is probably more than a good sea yak or possibly a long narrow sot with good glide and a skilled paddler.

I'm in favor of Eric Yakhopper's early post on a competition. I would love to see side by sides
I think it should be, currently in production, stock, fishing kayaks. in the 12 -15 foot class. Sorry Craig, no Scupper Pros
Kayaks not boats. The Hobie website specifically classifies the PA and the Adventure Island as boats
Lakes don't provide the variety of conditions the Ocean does or allow for an adequate comparision of both primary and secondary stability. Rivers favor shorter boats and risk damage to pedal drives. The Ocean would be the fairest comparison.
A kelp forest addition would be mandatory. It's part of the environment. It's where the fish are. Hobies are clearly faster in open water. For a race to be valid you can't take away the part where they are slower.
You can't say Hobie's aren't designed for kelp. Every Hobie comes equipped with this six foot long thing with flat parts on the ends. I think it's called a paddle
When fishing with Hobie riders, paddlers can cut through the kelp while Hobies go around. The time it takes to get to the same point on the other side is usually about the same. Since calculating these two factors fairly is nearly impossible, part of the the course would have to be straight through the kelp.

I would say a surf launch,  with a portion (TBD) through the kelp, plus a splash and self rescue and then a surf landing with a kayak drag 25 -50 feet beyond the surf line is fair. It would be even fairer if we could get 2-3 people per manufacturer's team. Therefore an average time versus the time of one exceptional paddler would decide the contest.
Last in a team format we would have to devise some sort of limitation on proceeding - until all team members have recovered from the splash and self rescue. Cause in NCKA we don't leave a man behind. That's how we roll.

I'm in favor of Eric Yakhopper's early post on a competition. I would love to see side by sides
I think it should be, currently in production, stock, fishing kayaks. in the 12 -15 foot class. Sorry Craig, no Scupper Pros
Kayaks not boats. The Hobie website specifically classifies the PA and the Adventure Island as boats
Lakes don't provide the variety of conditions the Ocean does or allow for an adequate comparision of both primary and secondary stability. Rivers favor shorter boats and risk damage to pedal drives. The Ocean would be the fairest comparison.
A kelp forest addition would be mandatory. It's part of the environment. It's where the fish are. Hobies are clearly faster in open water. For a race to be valid you can't take away the part where they are slower.
You can't say Hobie's aren't designed for kelp. Every Hobie comes equipped with this six foot long thing with flat parts on the ends. I think it's called a paddle
When fishing with Hobie riders, paddlers can cut through the kelp while Hobies go around. The time it takes to get to the same point on the other side is usually about the same. Since calculating these two factors fairly is nearly impossible, part of the the course would have to be straight through the kelp.

I would say a surf launch,  with a portion (TBD) through the kelp, plus a splash and self rescue and then a surf landing with a kayak drag 25 -50 feet beyond the surf line is fair. It would be even fairer if we could get 2-3 people per manufacturer's team. Therefore an average time versus the time of one exceptional paddler would decide the contest.
Last in a team format we would have to devise some sort of limitation on proceeding - until all team members have recovered from the splash and self rescue. Cause in NCKA we don't leave a man behind. That's how we roll.

Sounds like a great event to do at this year's PIF at MBK.   

 

Sincerely,

Jim

Though this whole topic means nothing to me ....  I still fail to see why we are attempting to subject a Hobie to a kelp/river atmosphere.  Yes, a Hobie can get itself out of a situation where it MAY run into kelp, but I have seen most avoid kelp.  It's all about the right tool for the job.  Would we hold a race to frame a house where one competitor is given a hammer & the other a rock; both COULD do the same thing but one ISN'T designed for that intended use.  I believe the initial reason for this was a test of endurance/stamina of one method vs another as opposed to "can your kayak do this"

   Now get out there & go fishing!

Murfman's original premise was

As this is an argument on which propulsion method is 'superior'

I take that as an overall statement. There is no qualification that it has to be ONLY under certain condition. There is little to be learned from that. This thread has been about discussing what makes up the parameters of a fair test. It's not a fishing thread. It seems to be a speed from point A to point B discussion. Otherwise when speaking of which is superior you have to factor maintenance and component failure. For Hobie's you would have to also have to include rudder issues, cause without the rudder on a Hobie you go around in circles.

Would we hold a race to frame a house where one competitor is given a hammer & the other a rock; both COULD do the same thing but one ISN'T designed for that intended use.

No we wouldn't, but we would hold a race where everybody has both a hammer and a rock and the winner is the one who uses both well.
ISN'T designed for that intended use ? We are talking fishing kayaks. The fish are very often in and around the kelp. i don't understand why Hobie riders get so defensive when the subject of kelp comes up. I have Hobie. Dealing with kelp is part of the package.

I say let's race

I believe he set his desires "throw down" conditions in the very first statement.  I paraphrase it as "same/similar weight", at some "lake", "point A to B as many times as it takes"  .... or did I miss something along the way?  That was HIS requested challenge.  IF we were to enter into the discussion of best all-round kayak there are WAY too many variables to consider to yield a winner, IMHO.

If we were to do this testing, at the very least we could derive least amount of drag created by a plastic SOT kayak to yield that numerical test data but that doesn't account for MANY other factors that simply cannot be controlled or duplicated so much beyond that is subjective; except the technical specifications of any given kayak (length, width, displacement, weight)

Not paraphrasing, just quoting Murfman.

I think this could be fun and educational

We are just giving feedback to (educating) a newer member. Talking about a fun way to learn something ourselves in a realistic situation. Technical specs put out by a manufacturer only transfer so far in the real world. I try not to over focus on bells and whistles. I go on the water to get away from those and to enjoy the company of my NCKA friends. If I can learn something useful, something that might increase that enjoyment or save my life on an unforgiving Ocean - and raise some $$ for a good cause, I'm all for it !

... in the end, it IS for a good cause & the brotherhood of NCKA!!!!