Busted for shore fishing at Bonita Point 8/7/09

Valium comes to mind, Judd...  but I'm old-school and don't even know what the good downer is now.   

Officer SRJ, if you didn't just blow a blood vessel in your brain reading Judd's tyrade I'd like you to have the Medal of Valor and Tolerance!  There's NO WAY that Judd will stick by such rants against you - it was foolish and nothing more.  Judd - I'd appreciate you admitting that and rectifying this.

Keep up the good work, SRJ, you are valued highly. 

You were instructed to sit down because we don't know who you are, what you may be hiding, or what your intentions might be.

He was carrying a fishing pole and tacklebox...  and was apparently observed fishing during the stakeout by your peers.

Neither of us was there, but based on what we know it would seem his intentions were very clear.  Your fellow officers, not so much.

I agree with Eric here. We had problems with a cerain Park Ranger at Limeklin State Park a while back and this particular ranger was using his badge like he was THE LAW (way too much attitude) 

Judd - repeat after me "we can agree to disagree...and still keep the peace"

I only wish all LEO's would make some kind of gesture to let citizens they come into contact with be able to walk away with something positive if they are not going to be cited or arrested. It seems theLEO that stopped Allen managed to do that. But "Don't let us see you around here again." To a visitor of a state park who made an honest mistake? How about "You can't fish here. We don't make the rules. However, you could try fishing over in this area of the park. Have a good day now and good luck man." When are those no fishing signs going to go up? That would save everyone the hastle. jim

P.S. Thank you to all the LEO's that treated me fairly, even the one's that were arresting me when I screwed up. To the LEO's that treated me like crap. 

Is this the same place as Point Bonita just outside the Golden Gate, by the lighthouse? I have fond memories fishing off the old coast guard pier just under the lighthouse. You have a beautiful view of the Golden Gate Bridge to your left and are protected from any winds by the high bluff behind you.
I don't recall any signs prohibiting fishing there, but the trail down was pretty steep, so much so, if you lost your footing - you'd be in a world of hurt. There were tide pools there where you could keep your fish alive and your drinks cold!
The fishing there was ok, as access was limited by your dexterity and foolhardiness. I've caught rockfish, greenling, cabbies, but mostly it was the perch. There are some pilings there that would cough up a few fish on a good day.
This area was a gem for a city dweller who needed to get a fix in a pinch and get out of the city. I'm sorry to hear that they are cracking down on the area, maybe because of the dangers getting there or the MPA, either way, its a lost.
This was truly a place where you could relax with your friends with minimal hassle, hope to catch fish, get treated to a spectacular view of the City and the Bridge, watch the boats go past and get home (SF) in 45 mins.

yikes...

...honest question: can you have a closed area that is not signed? 

If so, then how is the public supposed to know it is closed? Seems like a very large waste of resources to have to call in officers each time a citizen enters and unsigned closed area as signage does/would act as a deterrent.
Just questions/thoughts from a professional policy/process guy.

If they had signs then the officers would have no action in there day, I agree with the shovel statement, classic! I've had my fair share of interaction with all different types of law enforcement, some have rubbed me the wrong way, while others are level-headed, respectful professionals. IMO it comes down to the officers personality and their attitude when approaching a civilian. SRJ it is possible to be aware, focused, alert, and ready for all possible scenarios without the super trooper attitude. This is why I have more respect for veteran, laid back officers. They are experienced and efficient, though still treat you like a human being rather than a potential enemy. The thing that kind of bugs me is SRJ said he's training others. Don't forget you guys are public servants not public sheppards. Seek out the balance of authorative and courteous public interaction

Don't forget you guys are public servants not public sheppards. Seek out the balance of authorative and courteous public interaction

well said calbear

The thing that kind of bugs me is SRJ said he's training others.

If you knew SRJ you wouldn't be bugged.  It sounded to me like he has a little bit of a raw nerve for dirtbags (who in his shoes wouldn't?...), but some of you guys are coming off as cop-haters.

 

I didn't mean to come off that way, if I did.

You'll have to take my word for it that I'm extremely polite when dealing with law enforcement.  Yes sir, no sir, etc.  As I mentioned, I understand where they are coming from and sympathise.

But I do deeply resent the attitude some have regarding citizens.  A smile and a friendly demeanor go a long way, is all I'm saying, (as opposed to "Sit down on the curb and drop the fishing pole" as a greeting).

And the "I wish I could bring back the thouands of dead officers to explain this to you" thing was just ridiculous.  Please.

I don't get why people get their panties in a knot when fish and game, or a cop, stops them -- even if the stop is lame. Stay chill, be polite and let the transaction take its course. Sort it out later. Being law enforcement is a thankless job, and you should appreciate what they do. Remember, there are tons of scumbags out there who look just like everyone else.

BINGO...We have a winner. My thoughts exactly. Last time I was pulled over by the time the officer got to the truck my dome light was on (night time) and my licence, regs, and ins. cert.  were on the dash.

My technique is window down, both hands on the wheel, and I ask before I reach for reg & etc.

I've spent LOTs of time with PD, assisting with enforcement in the last 25yrs, and "being enforced" in the previous 25 (LOL)  If we had an NCKA contest about who has spent the most time in Jails, I might even win.  I think there is a knack to accomplishing the safety factor in a contact while minimizing the intimidation factor, but the balance has to go to safety.  I'm 110% with you SRJ, hope we can fish together soon!

Also, if I remember correctly, one of the "ban" rules on this board is "no personal attacks."  Maybe we have seen the last of that guy from Berkeley?  He can use his extra time to go fishing, perhaps.  

Allen

I completely disagree with Judd's comments...to the point I find it offensive.
SRJ was merely providing some perspective, in an attempt to clarify the situation (help us understand). By doing so, he's opening himself up to all sorts of criticism, and I appreciate his openness & honesty. But Judd's criticism was very inappropriate IMO.

I completely disagree with Judd's comments...to the point I find it offensive.
But Judd's criticism was very inappropriate IMO.

I'll second that...

and...you nailed it Allen...gotta be careful

Also, if I remember correctly, one of the "ban" rules on this board is "no personal attacks."  Maybe we have seen the last of that guy from Berkeley?  He can use his extra time to go fishing, perhaps. 

Today I banned someone from our site for making a racial slur. I have no problem doing this since that seems like a pretty basic thing you don't do. However it is not really spelled so here way go.

1. No personal attacks. We can all disagree but keep it on point and not personal.

Wasn't gonna comment on this thread but couldn't help myself...

Simply stated, I see both sides of the story here, as others have expressed.
Some Law Enforcement Officers (LEO's) are overzealous, etc, and a few can give a bad image to many.
On the other hand, there are a lot of dirtbags out there & the LEO's have to be careful with everybody.

The area: no/bad signage, previously open, etc. To citizens, this feels like a trap more than an actual violation (to get busted fishing there).

But the thing I want to add is that although the area is Park Service territory, it ain't no picnic or walk in the park to patrol these places near cities. This is essentially an extension of the urban landscape; the same inner-city BS that goes down on the streets can just as well take place out at the beaches and rangers in these areas have to deal with it all the time. It can get ugly out there.

That said, in this case, the guy was observed simply fishing and the LEO's admitted the place was poorly marked as off-limits, so it's very hard for us Joe Citizens to understand why they came up on him like it was a T-loin drug raid. Why make such a scene when the guy was just fishing in an area he obviously didn't know was off-limits? This is the stuff that leaves a bad taste with average folks who might be making a simple mistake & encounter LEO's.

On a final positive note, having met SRJ, I also have to back up his cred:  level-headed, well-trained professional in demeanor, and a guy who could and would save your neck in a heartbeat if you found yourself in trouble on the water or in the park.

Well said, Aaron.  You are so dang sensible!

But the thing I want to add is that although the area is Park Service territory, it ain't no picnic or walk in the park to patrol these places near cities. This is essentially an extension of the urban landscape; the same inner-city BS that goes down on the streets can just as well take place out at the beaches and rangers in these areas have to deal with it all the time. It can get ugly out there.
 

You got that right, these coastal/bay areas in and near the city are SKETCHY!! Spent a year in foster city, id always fish for leopard sharks from the shore after school, (was going to art school in SF), and man those areas got shadey quickly, and often. Gangster city. Form san Mateo, foster city to SF and oakland. Lots of tweakers smokin crack down there too, and yes they would even fish sometimes. Id ignore, them, but an old man warned me to be careful. So I stopped going. This was years ago.

Im sure you all remeber the San Mateo fishing Pier, a man was stabbed to death, he was just minding his biz, just doing a little fishing, they had it closed and flyers up for years on the murder, dont think they ever caught the guy.