Spot Burning

Do the # of lines in the water really turn off the salmon bite?

That would make me rethink being too close to the fleet of 100 boats with multiple lines out many with 4-6 lines in the water.  Stick boats with 12+ lines in the water…

I think so. They say fishing pressure will shut down a bite eventually. If it's true, then 40 kayaks cutting back and forth at the HMB cans or Pacifica would certainly put pressure on the fish in a relatively small area.

Again, it's a slow creep, and more obvious if you've been watching for a decade or more. First the parking lots get crowded, and you need to strategize how/when to get there to find a space. Then the actual fishing grounds get crowded, so much so that you have to constantly be on the watch for other kayaks and boats. Then the fishing gets tough, as others catch the fish or break up the party before you get there.

Miller Park/Hog Island is a perfect example of this process. I've seen more skunk and slow fishing reports this year than in past years, and don't see why it will ever get better or less-crowded. I guess the crowds will disappear only when the fishing gets so dismal that it's no longer worth the effort. That will be a sad day, but it's coming, if it hasn't already.

Places like Tomales Bay and Pacifica are getting social media'ed to death. Believe it or not, these were once relatively secret spots.

I’ll admit, I’m a little torn on the topic and understand both sides. I don’t get to spend more than a handful of times on the water each year due family time, work, and other hobbies. Each trip is usually targeting a different species depending on the bite & what’s legal during that time of year. I’ve relied on NCKA posts, you tube, internet blogs, and other reports to help myself grow over the years and I’ve been thankful for those resources in improving my fishing knowledge. I made a handful of posts on the NCKA site with details on my outings as a way to help others plan their next fishing adventure. When it’s a successful trip, I’ll admit, there’s pride in the accomplishment and it feels good to show off some success with others NCKA members that I know appreciate a good haul. That said, I’ve certainly seen my share of posts on this topic and members get pretty riled up about spot burning and the consensus seems to lean towards wanting more secrecy. I’m not out fishing often enough nor have I been doing it for long enough to see the impacts like many of these other guys. I trust their assessment that crowds have changed over the years. Fishing, hunting, gathering, etc. have all historically been means of providing food for oneself and “hot spot” locations are shrouded in secrecy to protect the resource. I also think sharing information helps us all grow as individuals and the willingness for others to share information has been invaluable to me. Maybe my views will change over time, but for now, I’ll likely continue to shares my experiences with the NCKA members and I’ll try to respect some notion of secrecy for any locations I visit that are a little less traveled (maybe keep specifics out of the post).

I also think sharing information helps us all grow as individuals and the willingness for others to share information has been invaluable to me.

I suggest trying to "grow as individuals" off-screen -- by exploring and discovering spots on your own, or by meeting locals and earning their trust enough to get word-of-mouth tips. Free info on the Internet, whether you're giving it or taking it, is ultimately not very satisfying, and eventually it spoils the party for everyone.

Places like Tomales Bay and Pacifica are getting social media'ed to death. Believe it or not, these were once relatively secret spots.

paifica ...mmm.. IDK I`m 58 y/o ,I knew about it back in the late 60`s  my dad,GF,GGF   all fished it by private PB or commercially.... T-bay oh yeah   ..locals kept it quiet

Tomales actually has historically low pressure today comparatively. It used to be a major center for commercial fishermen in the 20th century and many tons of fish were landed on long wharves of which there are only 2 or 3 left. Mostly herring, salmon, halibut and rockfish.

It also used to be a major destination for fly fishing (read Russel Chatham) and attracted city-dwellers by the droves on the narrow-gauge railroad.

Places like Tomales Bay and Pacifica are getting social media'ed to death. Believe it or not, these were once relatively secret spots.

paifica ...mmm.. IDK I`m 58 y/o ,I knew about it back in the late 60`s  my dad,GF,GGF   all fished it by private PB or commercially.... T-bay oh yeah   ..locals kept it quiet

Tomales actually has historically low pressure today comparatively. It used to be a major center for commercial fishermen in the 20th century and many tons of fish were landed on long wharves of which there are only 2 or 3 left. Mostly herring, salmon, halibut and rockfish.

It also used to be a major destination for fly fishing (read Russel Chatham) and attracted city-dwellers by the droves on the narrow-gauge railroad.

Very interesting, thanks. Definitely going to check out this Chatham dude.

Twenty years ago you could drive to Pacifica at noon on a Saturday and find parking. It wasn't an issue. Try that now. Mostly it's surfers and other beach people, but more people launch kayaks there than ever before, and many of them learned about it online. Crowding does make fishing more of a challenge, and at a certain point, the joy of socializing with other kayakers becomes insignificant compared to the frustration of congestion on and off the water. This is all especially the case at Tomales Bay (even though it's a bit further from the urban population center than Pacifica). 

The halibut spot on Marin coast is well known for decades, pretty sure I’ve mentioned it on ncka a few times. Millions of halibut creep in there, 99% of the time I avoid or c&r like I would thresher

Kayaks have as much right to them as boats

Main difference up there is bolinas factor, which flares up mainly because of visibility, crammed parking in a town that forever has tried to keep its hometown vibe which can feel like the locals only vibe

More to it than that but in a place like that it mainly comes down to keeping the peace

I.e keeping down the animosities between different factions is a good start

I spent years in similar places where locals scouted and knew spots so I get that side of it.

When I first saw and joined coastside I knew more salmon would be caught as a result of open info

You used to have to scout, not any more

Twenty years ago you could drive to Pacifica at noon on a Saturday and find parking. It wasn't an issue. Try that now. Mostly it's surfers and other beach people, but more people launch kayaks there than ever before, and many of them learned about it online. Crowding does make fishing more of a challenge, and at a certain point, the joy of socializing with other kayakers becomes insignificant compared to the frustration of congestion on and off the water. This is all especially the case at Tomales Bay (even though it's a bit further from the urban population center than Pacifica).

Yes, population growth in the last 20 years has definitely changed things.  It used to be that I could drive from Roseville to SF on a weekend and barely hit any traffic (maybe four cars deep at the Bay Bridge max (20 years ago).  Now, I think twice before heading West on 80 for the weekend.  20 years ago is gone and wont be coming back to the Bay Area.  Spot burning has nothing to do with the crowds at the beach (especially this year).   

EO2R (end of second rant)

Twenty years ago you could drive to Pacifica at noon on a Saturday and find parking. It wasn't an issue. Try that now. Mostly it's surfers and other beach people, but more people launch kayaks there than ever before, and many of them learned about it online. Crowding does make fishing more of a challenge, and at a certain point, the joy of socializing with other kayakers becomes insignificant compared to the frustration of congestion on and off the water. This is all especially the case at Tomales Bay (even though it's a bit further from the urban population center than Pacifica).

Yes, population growth in the last 20 years has definitely changed things.  It used to be that I could drive from Roseville to SF on a weekend and barely hit any traffic (maybe four cars deep at the Bay Bridge max (20 years ago).  Now, I think twice before heading West on 80 for the weekend.  20 years ago is gone and wont be coming back to the Bay Area.  Spot burning has nothing to do with the crowds at the beach (especially this year).   


EO2R (end of second rant)

Nope -- it isn't population growth. The increased crowding is way out of proportion to recent growth in the state's (human) population. At the Pacifica parking lots, there are roughly 5 times the vehicles today on any given weekend as compared to 20 years ago. Meanwhile, the population in the Bay Area has increased maybe 25 percent. So, it's not a matter of more people; it's a matter of more people going to the beach.

I also think sharing information helps us all grow as individuals and the willingness for others to share information has been invaluable to me.

I suggest trying to "grow as individuals" off-screen -- by exploring and discovering spots on your own, or by meeting locals and earning their trust enough to get word-of-mouth tips. Free info on the Internet, whether you're giving it or taking it, is ultimately not very satisfying, and eventually it spoils the party for everyone.

So does this mean you’ve never read a post or report, then targeted that area with knowledge of a good bite or other helpful intel?

While spending that much time in a community and earning information through experience and word of mouth is surely more rewarding, how many people have the time or opportunity to accomplish this? It’s a romantic sentiment, one I wish was practical for more, but I don’t think it’s a genuine representative of reality for most anglers.

Twenty years ago you could drive to Pacifica at noon on a Saturday and find parking. It wasn't an issue. Try that now. Mostly it's surfers and other beach people, but more people launch kayaks there than ever before, and many of them learned about it online. Crowding does make fishing more of a challenge, and at a certain point, the joy of socializing with other kayakers becomes insignificant compared to the frustration of congestion on and off the water. This is all especially the case at Tomales Bay (even though it's a bit further from the urban population center than Pacifica).

Yes, population growth in the last 20 years has definitely changed things.  It used to be that I could drive from Roseville to SF on a weekend and barely hit any traffic (maybe four cars deep at the Bay Bridge max (20 years ago).  Now, I think twice before heading West on 80 for the weekend.  20 years ago is gone and wont be coming back to the Bay Area.  Spot burning has nothing to do with the crowds at the beach (especially this year).   


EO2R (end of second rant)

Nope -- it isn't population growth. The increased crowding is way out of proportion to recent growth in the state's (human) population. At the Pacifica parking lots, there are roughly 5 times the vehicles today on any given weekend as compared to 20 years ago. Meanwhile, the population in the Bay Area has increased maybe 25 percent. So, it's not a matter of more people; it's a matter of more people going to the beach.

Yeah, I would say a little from column A and a lot from column B. Yeah, more people = more people fishing, but I would say the crowds at Tomales have at least doubled in the four years I've been going there which is way more that the population growth over that period. Before this year I never thought of Tomales as being crowded.

I also think sharing information helps us all grow as individuals and the willingness for others to share information has been invaluable to me.

I suggest trying to "grow as individuals" off-screen -- by exploring and discovering spots on your own, or by meeting locals and earning their trust enough to get word-of-mouth tips. Free info on the Internet, whether you're giving it or taking it, is ultimately not very satisfying, and eventually it spoils the party for everyone.

So does this mean you’ve never read a post or report, then targeted that area with knowledge of a good bite or other helpful intel?

While spending that much time in a community and earning information through experience and word of mouth is surely more rewarding, how many people have the time or opportunity to accomplish this? It’s a romantic sentiment, one I wish was practical for more, but I don’t think it’s a genuine representative of reality for most anglers.

+1

Talking to locals is one method of communicating information and gaining knowledge, but it’s hard for me to not think of the NCKA site as another valuable resource for sharing information. Just looking at the forum topics, “Hook-ups and Fishing Reports” is by far the most commented category. I’ve only been a member for the last 1yr, so maybe I’m missing something, but it seems to me that we all have benefited from those conversations. If people want to keep their spot a secret and not share info, that’s fair. I also think these discussions of “spot burn” help to educate members on the concerns. If oversharing on the NCKA forum is really a root cause of the spot burn problem, I think there needs to be a bigger conversations by the NCKA administrators to address the issue. Otherwise, I don’t think it should be frowned upon for people to share information on a kayak fishing forum (other internet forums are a different conversation). We are all here to learn and this site helps to bring together like minded people to share experiences.

Yeah, this is the first year I've seen the Tomales lots packed so regularly.  I used to ride my motorcycle down there even before getting a kayak.  Usually, the Nick's lot was mostly empty and the top lot was always empty.  Last couple times I was there, both lots were stacked completely, so full that cars were starting to line the road (even along the turns before Nick's).

I also think sharing information helps us all grow as individuals and the willingness for others to share information has been invaluable to me.

I suggest trying to "grow as individuals" off-screen -- by exploring and discovering spots on your own, or by meeting locals and earning their trust enough to get word-of-mouth tips. Free info on the Internet, whether you're giving it or taking it, is ultimately not very satisfying, and eventually it spoils the party for everyone.

So does this mean you’ve never read a post or report, then targeted that area with knowledge of a good bite or other helpful intel?

While spending that much time in a community and earning information through experience and word of mouth is surely more rewarding, how many people have the time or opportunity to accomplish this? It’s a romantic sentiment, one I wish was practical for more, but I don’t think it’s a genuine representative of reality for most anglers.

No, it does not mean I've never read a report. But I do wish many reports -- even those that I benefit from -- never were posted to begin with.

If there weren't so many people in the Bay Area, it wouldn't matter, but we have 8 million people within an hour's drive of the water. How many of them do you suppose might want to catch a fish from a kayak? Pulling numbers out of my ass, I'd guess that at least one person in 100 would think that sounds pretty cool. So, that's 80,000 people who might want to fish from a kayak. Then (continuing to pull numbers from my ass), let's say that half of them might actually do it. That's 40,000 people. Now, for the sake of being conservative, let's cut that in half to 20,000 people within an hour's drive of the water who might have the wherewithal to get a kayak and follow an Internet report hoping to catch a fish. That translates into crowds.