nobody wants to touch it

taking bets on second term

Are you betting on him running or getting elected for a second term? What about bets on his first term? For a lot of people he has already been successful. Hopefully he has broken the political mold and in the future we will have more choices than only the ones cranked out by the either party establishment. I am certainly not very hopeful he will be able to live up to his promises. There is a huge amount of bureaucratic inertia pushing against the changes he has promised. Add to that all the powerful people that will actively fight and undermine his policies. I watched an old Spencer Tracy movie "State Of The Union" today. I was amazed by all the parallels to today. Unlike in the movie, Donald Trump stayed true to his message and talked directly to the voters and won. He won against the political machine. We shouldn't overlook this historic feat. A lot of very smart people have lost a lot of money betting against Trump. I myself said early on that sooner or later he would say the wrong thing and that would be the end of it. I voted against him in the primary. I don't think he is the monster the left is trying to make him out to be. I do think he became a politician when he decided to run. He had to carve out a constituency to get elected as every politician must do. There was no way to win in the big cities and he saw an opportunity with the rural voters. He designed his message to excite and appeal to the rural voter to get elected. We can see how well it worked by the rallies he held and his margin of victory. Now as he begins to govern he will be faced with balancing the wants and needs of the whole country. It will be interesting to see what happens in the congressional election in two years.

You have your views, I have mine. I'm not going to waste my time debating someone who starts their "argument" with the premise that I'm an idiot...

1) As stated, and as you have since stated you know and understand, the term has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Deflect much?

2) In any case, I'd have thought you'd have been happy to have been included with the likes of: H. G. Wells, Paul Robeson, George Bernard Shaw and others. No?

3) Since your feelings seem to have been hurt to the point that you cannot debate, then please accept my apologies.  I hope your condition improves.


Trivia found while researching Stalin's list of useful idiots yesterday:

The attribution to Lenin is apparently apocryphal.  We do know that Josef Stalin actually had a list of  people he considered "useful fools" (the most literal translation from the original Russian).

Ironically, it is Trump who is now considered to a 'useful idiot' in the country that invented this idiom.

You have a Russian source for that? Because Madeline Albright is ummmm...  A "wee" bit biased with her opinion, don't you think?

You have your views, I have mine. I'm not going to waste my time debating someone who starts their "argument" with the premise that I'm an idiot...

1) As stated, and as you have since stated you know and understand, the term has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Deflect much?

2) In any case, I'd have thought you'd have been happy to have been included with the likes of: H. G. Wells, Paul Robeson, George Bernard Shaw and others. No?

3) Since your feelings seem to have been hurt to the point that you cannot debate, then please accept my apologies.  I hope your condition improves.


Trivia found while researching Stalin's list of useful idiots yesterday:

The attribution to Lenin is apparently apocryphal.  We do know that Josef Stalin actually had a list of  people he considered "useful fools" (the most literal translation from the original Russian).

Ironically, it is Trump who is now considered to a 'useful idiot' in the country that invented this idiom.

You have a Russian source for that? Because Madeline Albright is ummmm...  A "wee" bit biased with her opinion, don't you think?

Here you go: http://bfy.tw/8rZH  http://bfy.tw/8rZI  But I'm sure you googled it before asking...

Quite a few people, incl. from Russian opposition and former CIA director. Sorry, no quote from Putin, but you did not expect it, did you?

And some interesting ones:

You have your views, I have mine. I'm not going to waste my time debating someone who starts their "argument" with the premise that I'm an idiot...

1) As stated, and as you have since stated you know and understand, the term has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Deflect much?

2) In any case, I'd have thought you'd have been happy to have been included with the likes of: H. G. Wells, Paul Robeson, George Bernard Shaw and others. No?

3) Since your feelings seem to have been hurt to the point that you cannot debate, then please accept my apologies.  I hope your condition improves.


Trivia found while researching Stalin's list of useful idiots yesterday:

The attribution to Lenin is apparently apocryphal.  We do know that Josef Stalin actually had a list of  people he considered "useful fools" (the most literal translation from the original Russian).

Ironically, it is Trump who is now considered to a 'useful idiot' in the country that invented this idiom.

You have a Russian source for that? Because Madeline Albright is ummmm...  A "wee" bit biased with her opinion, don't you think?

Here you go: http://bfy.tw/8rZH  http://bfy.tw/8rZI  But I'm sure you googled it before asking...

Quite a few people, incl. from Russian opposition and former CIA director. Sorry, no quote from Putin, but you did not expect it, did you?

And some interesting ones:

So, then the answer is no. You do not have a source within the Russian government claiming Trump as a "useful idiot".  And seriously, let me google that for you links to translations of American sources? Yes, those are truly Russian...

P.S. Tell you what though, I'll ask the two Russians I work with tomorrow if they think Trump is Putin's useful idiot. Well, Ukrainian-Russians more accurately.  And I'll get back to you on that.

P.P.S I did like your deft touch with the translation into Russian of "useful fool" and plugging it into LMGTFY. A bit snide, but still clever, even though the results it gave were more of the same American sources, just translated.

You have your views, I have mine. I'm not going to waste my time debating someone who starts their "argument" with the premise that I'm an idiot...

1) As stated, and as you have since stated you know and understand, the term has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Deflect much?

2) In any case, I'd have thought you'd have been happy to have been included with the likes of: H. G. Wells, Paul Robeson, George Bernard Shaw and others. No?

3) Since your feelings seem to have been hurt to the point that you cannot debate, then please accept my apologies.  I hope your condition improves.


Trivia found while researching Stalin's list of useful idiots yesterday:

The attribution to Lenin is apparently apocryphal.  We do know that Josef Stalin actually had a list of  people he considered "useful fools" (the most literal translation from the original Russian).

Ironically, it is Trump who is now considered to a 'useful idiot' in the country that invented this idiom.

You have a Russian source for that? Because Madeline Albright is ummmm...  A "wee" bit biased with her opinion, don't you think?

Here you go: http://bfy.tw/8rZH  http://bfy.tw/8rZI  But I'm sure you googled it before asking...

Quite a few people, incl. from Russian opposition and former CIA director. Sorry, no quote from Putin, but you did not expect it, did you?

And some interesting ones:

So, then the answer is no. You do not have a source within the Russian government claiming Trump as a "useful idiot".

oh, so you *did* expect quote from Russian government calling president-elect a 'useful idiot'..?

Why not? If that is what is widely believed, why wouldn't a government official state such? Heck, just give me the results of a Russian poll that shows a significant portion of the population believes such.

Why not? If that is what is widely believed, why wouldn't a government official state such? Heck, just give me the results of a Russian poll that shows a significant portion of the population believes such.

I'm not sure if you are trolling, I'll give you a hint why not - if this does not work I'll have to add this to the list of unresolvables.

nuts

nuts

 at least we're a mixed bag

Why not? If that is what is widely believed, why wouldn't a government official state such? Heck, just give me the results of a Russian poll that shows a significant portion of the population believes such.

I'm not sure if you are trolling, I'll give you a hint why not - if this does not work I'll have to add this to the list of unresolvables.

This is a fishing site, right?

But the deal is, is that you're just wrong. You can't show that it is widely believed in Russia the Trump is Putin's useful idiot. What you can show, is that it IS widely reported in the US media that hasbeen US politicians that didn't /don't want Trump as president have said that he's "Putin's useful idiot".

So when asked for a credible Russian source stating that Trump is "Putin's useful idiot", you failed to deliver. But you did provide Russian news articles quoting those same US hasbeen politicians that are biased against Trump. Because that's the same thing...

When asked again for a real Russian source - governmental, or even a simple poll taken of Russians "Is Trump Putin's useful idiot", you deflect. Probably because you know that in Russia, it is the state run media that tells the average person what to believe. Not that unlike the US now, really.

But maybe I'm wrong, just show me what you've got.  Simply provide a link to a credible Russian source stating that Trump is thought by Russians to be Putin's "useful idiot".  I'm sure that if it is such a commonly held belief, then RT or Isvestia or either of the Pravda outlets have something along that line readily available to be read online. Shouldn't take but a few moments to google it up. Then you you really can google it for me. But for realz this time.

Why not? If that is what is widely believed, why wouldn't a government official state such? Heck, just give me the results of a Russian poll that shows a significant portion of the population believes such.

I'm not sure if you are trolling, I'll give you a hint why not - if this does not work I'll have to add this to the list of unresolvables.

This is a fishing site, right?



But the deal is, is that you're just wrong. You can't show that it is widely believed in Russia the Trump is Putin's useful idiot. What you can show, is that it IS widely reported in the US media that hasbeen US politicians that didn't /don't want Trump as president have said that he's "Putin's useful idiot".

So when asked for a credible Russian source stating that Trump is "Putin's useful idiot", you failed to deliver. But you did provide Russian news articles quoting those same US hasbeen politicians that are biased against Trump. Because that's the same thing...

When asked again for a real Russian source - governmental, or even a simple poll taken of Russians "Is Trump Putin's useful idiot", you deflect. Probably because you know that in Russia, it is the state run media that tells the average person what to believe. Not that unlike the US now, really.

But maybe I'm wrong, just show me what you've got.  Simply provide a link to a credible Russian source stating that Trump is thought by Russians to be Putin's "useful idiot".  I'm sure that if it is such a commonly held belief, then RT or Isvestia or either of the Pravda outlets have something along that line readily available to be read online. Shouldn't take but a few moments to google it up. Then you you really can google it for me. But for realz this time.

It is weird conversation for a fishing site. I was going to stop couple of posts ago, but I'll do final one.

1. The fact that you don't understand or disagree with what I'm saying does not make me 'just wrong'. Making such statements does not add value to any discussion.

2. The fact that I did not deliver what you expected me to deliver ("governmental source") does not mean I did not prove my point. I never promised you quote from RT or Putin, in fact, first I thought you were joking asking for such a quote. Look at that FBI pic I sent earlier for the irony of situation...

I kind of hinted, or hope I did, that it would be strange for Putin or Russian government to say that Trump is their useful idiot. I was hoping it was clear, but I'm not even sure you were reading what I said. Similarly, you would never expect them to admit "that guy is our spy", or "we have kompromat on him", at least not until it's becomes  public - do you? (and no, just in case - I'm talking about 'a' guy, not claiming anything wrt. Trump here, despite some reports).

So, I'm not sure why you expected quote from RT or Putin. I did give you quotes from russians in russian, and that is exactly the claim I was making. And, of course, fact that some governments, considered by many as enemies of US, including Russia, have endorsed Trump, kind of works in a favor of my point.

I'm not going to be replying to this sub-thread, if you want we can try to continue over pm.

This is a podcast by John Batchelor talking about the subject of Trump and our relationship with Putin. He is interviewing a Russian expert, I don't remember the name though. It might change your point of view.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-batchelor-show/id589864479?mt=2&i=377400791

This is a podcast by John Batchelor talking about the subject of Trump and our relationship with Putin. He is interviewing a Russian expert, I don't remember the name though. It might change your point of view.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-batchelor-show/id589864479?mt=2&i=377400791

Thanks. Might help to point to exact podcast..

If you are referring to Stephen Cohen - I'm very well aware of his position. To look at this in prospective you might want to look at Munk debates http://www.munkdebates.com/debates/the-west-vs-russia

This is a podcast by John Batchelor talking about the subject of Trump and our relationship with Putin. He is interviewing a Russian expert, I don't remember the name though. It might change your point of view.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-batchelor-show/id589864479?mt=2&i=377400791

Thanks. Might help to point to exact podcast..

If you are referring to Stephen Cohen - I'm very well aware of his position. To look at this in prospective you might want to look at Munk debates http://www.munkdebates.com/debates/the-west-vs-russia

So what you're saying is grabbing a link from the exact podcast was a general podcast link? Or was that just you're way of asking for a more specific link?

November 1st, Tales of the new cold war. I believe there are others about this topic.

So for perspective I can look at the Munk debates. If we have a Princeton expert supporting the idea, then maybe, just maybe Trump's position rises above the level of useful fool. Maybe there is room for debate and respect for opinions on both sides.

This is a podcast by John Batchelor talking about the subject of Trump and our relationship with Putin. He is interviewing a Russian expert, I don't remember the name though. It might change your point of view.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-batchelor-show/id589864479?mt=2&i=377400791

Thanks. Might help to point to exact podcast..

If you are referring to Stephen Cohen - I'm very well aware of his position. To look at this in prospective you might want to look at Munk debates http://www.munkdebates.com/debates/the-west-vs-russia

So what you're saying is grabbing a link from the exact podcast was a general podcast link? Or was that just you're way of asking for a more specific link?

November 1st, Tales of the new cold war. I believe there are others about this topic.

So for perspective I can look at the Munk debates. If we have a Princeton expert supporting the idea, then maybe, just maybe Trump's position rises above the level of useful fool. Maybe there is room for debate and respect for opinions on both sides.

What I'm saying is that link you sent opened page with 300 files, so I was not sure which one you were referring too. Google told me John Batchelor spoke with Cohen about Trump, so I *assumed* this is what you referred to. But I don't like to assume. Thanks for the date, I'll look at podcast, I've been following Cohen but not sure if I listened to this one.

Now, about expert... There are many experts on various topics, some work at Princeton, some at Stanford. Which one do you want to trust?.. Of course, you can trust selection made for you and trust expert you don't know and have not heard name before. Or you can listen/read discussion between experts and see which position you like more. Both approaches are valid, depend on interest for particular topic. For topics i find interesting I'm looking at various views, to make more educated choice. Munkes debate was first that came to mind when I thought of Cohen. Another source could be McFaul (who also happened to be professor, and also former amb. to Russia), he's very active on twitter and regularly publishes articles and books.