Do you think that AOTY Suggestions From Members Should be Considered?

Jim, show me where the suggestions were considered, voted on, and approved and I'll shut my trap.  But year after year I see the same thing happen.  People that want to voice their opinions get shot down and ridiculed as if their thoughts and suggestions aren't valid or somehow feel that discussing it detracts from fundraising efforts.  That's what i'm tired of Jim.

Al,

We do take participant input seriously, and the committee does vote on proposed changes. The only problem I have with the proposed changes for 2016 is that they were made AFTER people started competing in the 2016 AOTY. 

If you want rules changed, waters added etc., then get some popular support for your change and submit the proposal to the committee BEFORE the new year.  We will consider and vote on every proposal particularly if it has popular support.

I think I can speak for all of the committee when I say that we try to make rules that are inclusive and fair to all participants. We also set rules in attempt to eliminate inter-competitor conflict (and greifing /metagaming).  The mouth closed rule is an example of the latter.

As far as I know, there is no formal process to committee selection. Those committee members who have been added during my time have been nominated by an AOTY participant and/or committee member and then approved by a unanimous vote by the committee. We will be adding one committee member in the very near future, and I think everyone will agree that he is a great choice for the job.

Please remember that we are trying to make money for PIF (The A-Hulls charity).  Many of us on the committee have absolutely ZERO say as to what happens with PIF funds, and we are cool with that. In addition, that PIF refuses to get 501c status makes it a little more difficult for us to solicit sponsor prizes.  No biggie.. we don't want to interfere with what you guys got going. However, we ask that you take this into consideration before bashing the committee.

So I think one of the main issues here is that there's really no insight on what the AOTY committee is doing regarding rules changes.  I, as well as other people, are thankful that the committee does what it does, and none of us are particularly interested in the inner workings of the day to day type decisions like DQs, complaints about other anglers, etc.

But there is a lack of transparency as to what is considered for an annual rule change, and some of us tend to sit there and wonder if anything is coming.  There's no formal process to discuss what is being proposed behind the scenes, and it affects the competitors, as we don't know if the committee has considered our thoughts at all.  If these things are being raised up at inappropriate times, i'm sorry, but sometimes people forget, and need reminders.  Heck the payment button was just kind of assumed to work for 2016 until Jim brought it up very recently (thanks for the reminder Jim!).  I think its just a fact that towards the end of the year people start focusing on other things, and I highly doubt any of us would have thought of AOTY rule suggestions unless reminded.

Well, there is your problem. Siting and waiting for change doesn't get anything done. The committee has limited time, and we already spend a fair amount of time checking on submissions, voting on iffy submissions, reviewing and discussing disputed submissions, and proposing rule changes to eliminate conflicts.  It is unreasonable to expect the committee to see every permutation of every possible rule, or to read the minds of our participants. Thus, we rely on participants to suggest many of the proposed rule changes with only one condition: The proposed rule changes must be made in a manner that allows new rules to be discussed, voted on, and adopted BEFORE the competition begins.

So how is someone supposed to submit a proposed rule change?  Forum? PM?  Text? Smoke signal?  How do competitors even know that a rule was proposed and voted on?  I'm tellin' ya, Hydrospider brought up the SUP issue last year, and I thought it was being considered.  But...nothin'.  How am I supposed to know if the committee even considered it?  If they did and voted against it, fine.

Exactly. 

You could start by making a thread and messaging the committee members, ya know.. before the tournament begins.  If you would like to see a formal process, how bout suggesting one?

The committee should be more transparent IMHO.  Maybe they shouldn't even make rule changes, and maybe it should be up to the players.  Then no one could bitch at them for rule changes anymore!  Maybe the previous years winners should be the ones to vote on any changes that are made.  Announce a time for proposals to be submitted and then voted on and implemented.  If that took it into the new year, so be it.  Make the first week or two of the year the voting time.

But, NO ONE is getting paid for the hours and hours they spend on AOTY and DOTY, and the profits all go to PIF

You do. ....

How do I get paid for my work on DOTY Andy??

I really wanna know WTF you're talking about?

Looks like most of your time spent online is during work hours?


http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=profile;area=statistics;u=2719

But, NO ONE is getting paid for the hours and hours they spend on AOTY and DOTY, and the profits all go to PIF

You do. ....

How do I get paid for my work on DOTY Andy??

I really wanna know WTF you're talking about?

Looks like most of your time spent online is during work hours?


http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=profile;area=statistics;u=2719

 

Last year was the first time that I participated in AOTY. It was a very disappointing experience to say the least. Since then i have taken a breather from the tournament. I have heard a lot of things about AOTY (Good and Bad) but experiencing it first hand was another thing.  To me, AOTY has become something completely different from what NCKA represents. (This is me). Blast me, yell at me, say i'm stupid for blah blah blah, I stand by this statement.

It has been stated that "If you don't like it" don't participate, which is true, but if the members of this community does not support it, except for a select few, then is it really NCKA? Competition brings out the best and worst out of people. AOTY seems to go bring out the worst in people, maybe it's time to listen and put changes in place that bring it back to the values of NCKA.   

you're stupid keith.    cya at shadow cliffs soon?

haha let's do it. i can learn from your little girl. I'm sure she would school me at that lake. I'll PM you brotha. Can't submit my trout cause i'll get DQed. Lol. I suppose i can just eat it and submit a photo of the skeleton. 

I participated in AOTY and JAOTY with my son.  AOTY gets quite competitive and to be honest that can detract from the fun of fishing.  Early on when JAOTY was being created there was a clear emphasis on keeping it fun, having it less competitive and more of a "get your kid on the water" kind of thing. 

The rules were very clear early on, the kids would not be held to the same standard.  The prizes would not be awarded for overall score but at the raffle for their participation.  All JAOTY participants still have a chance to win the grand prize.  2015 is done, there is a clear winner who caught more species than all other juniors (on a kayak) and played within the established rules.  Done.

There is a lot to kayak fishing and even more when you factor in documenting your catch.  If my kid goes out with me, waits for his fish, catches it, puts it on a board and snaps a pick all by himself I am not going to nit pick his photo because the fishes mouth is open.  My kids photos were AOTY quality because I took them.

This year was an absolute blast!  I caught multiple personal best fish and also got my son on a ton of new species. 

I think that all competitors from the previous year should be able to make suggestions in some type of forum prior to the beginning of the next year.  If you don't participate, STFU!

Josh

The committee should be more transparent IMHO.  Maybe they shouldn't even make rule changes, and maybe it should be up to the players.  Then no one could bitch at them for rule changes anymore!  Maybe the previous years winners should be the ones to vote on any changes that are made.  Announce a time for proposals to be submitted and then voted on and implemented.  If that took it into the new year, so be it.  Make the first week or two of the year the voting time.

I'm all for something like this.  Should I PM the suggestion to the committee or do you guys want me to start a brand new thread about it?  And if we do suggest it, how do we know it will even be considered, without transparency?

Sounds like an awesome idea to me personally.

I think each AOTY or DOTY winner should be forces to serve at least one year on the committee as well, or at least automatically have the option of it if they want 

I participated in AOTY and JAOTY with my son.  AOTY gets quite competitive and to be honest that can detract from the fun of fishing.  Early on when JAOTY was being created there was a clear emphasis on keeping it fun, having it less competitive and more of a "get your kid on the water" kind of thing. 

The rules were very clear early on, the kids would not be held to the same standard.  The prizes would not be awarded for overall score but at the raffle for their participation.  All JAOTY participants still have a chance to win the grand prize.  2015 is done, there is a clear winner who caught more species than all other juniors (on a kayak) and played within the established rules.  Done.

There is a lot to kayak fishing and even more when you factor in documenting your catch.  If my kid goes out with me, waits for his fish, catches it, puts it on a board and snaps a pick all by himself I am not going to nit pick his photo because the fishes mouth is open.  My kids photos were AOTY quality because I took them.

This year was an absolute blast!  I caught multiple personal best fish and also got my son on a ton of new species. 

I think that all competitors from the previous year should be able to make suggestions in some type of forum prior to the beginning of the next year.  If you don't participate, STFU!

Josh

Well said Josh.  You and your son kicked ass dude. Congrats again!!

 

Sincerely,

Jim

... so am I gonna be able to enter any fish caught off the sup this year or what?
It is 2016 already and I am chomping at the bit to get out there in board shorts and fly-fish-up a 18" crappie off of my board

... so am I gonna be able to enter any fish caught off the sup this year or what?
It is 2016 already and I am chomping at the bit to get out there in board shorts and fly-fish-up a 18" crappie off of my board

I'm pulling my proposal for SUPs and the lakes for 2016.  I'll just submit any fish I catch off my sup without a picture of the SUP in the background.  That's the american way 

I'll write up a proposal for new AOTY rules submission and consideration process, since ATD says I can do that.  I'll take input from us competitors, and we can implement for 2017 forward, if we can come to a consensus.  I think AOTY rules changes have been bothering people for years, and its high time we do something about it.

... so am I gonna be able to enter any fish caught off the sup this year or what?
It is 2016 already and I am chomping at the bit to get out there in board shorts and fly-fish-up a 18" crappie off of my board

I think non-competitors should be able to vote, even though the rules don't affect us it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to keep sup'ers out. 

I also think these dangerous kooks should have to undergo a universal background surf session to make sure kooks don't buy em and kill someone in the lineup.  They also shouldn't be able to paddle anything longer than 10' cause only the very best can operate them safely and still demonstrate good style.  Maybe only lifeguards should own them. 

Just saying.   





PS....having been on the rules committee, way back when, when there was even less drama.....it's a thankless and crappy job, no matter what you do, someone will have an issue

... so am I gonna be able to enter any fish caught off the sup this year or what?
It is 2016 already and I am chomping at the bit to get out there in board shorts and fly-fish-up a 18" crappie off of my board

I'm pulling my proposal for SUPs and the lakes for 2016.  I'll just submit any fish I catch off my sup without a picture of the SUP in the background.  That's the american way 

I'll write up a proposal for new AOTY rules submission and consideration process, since ATD says I can do that.  I'll take input from us competitors, and we can implement for 2017 forward, if we can come to a consensus.  I think AOTY rules changes have been bothering people for years, and its high time we do something about it.

cool I like doing things the 'merican way

I have an idea.  Why don't we have a round-table discussion at the AOTY awards this year.  Most committee members will be there, and we can all sit down and discuss rule changes, transparency issues etc.  From there we can make a few forum posts and try to reach a consensus.

I also propose more transparency for the process by which AOTY-> PIF funds are distributed (Im on the committee and I have no idea what the decision process is).

Sitting around a camp fire is funner.

I have an idea.  Why don't we have a round-table discussion at the AOTY awards this year.  Most committee members will be there, and we can all sit down and discuss rule changes, transparency issues etc.  From there we can make a few forum posts and try to reach a consensus.

I also propose more transparency for the process by which AOTY-> PIF funds are distributed (Im on the committee and I have no idea what the decision process is).

damn that sounds completely reasonable - wtf just happened