We don't want to take your guns...read H.R. 4269

Stop worrying about the federal actions for now. Look at what Harris and Newsom introduced for CA.

The status quo ain't working... Time to try something new. Maybe it won't work. Maybe it will. Only one way to find out, right?

I get the frustration.  But its exactly the knee jerk "we have to try something" actions that need to stop.  No, we don't have to try something.  It is possible, nay, probably, that "doing something, anything" will make the situation even worse.  Logical actions that forward the ends of reducing gun violence, by using acceptable means, are welcome.  But if the logic breaks down, and we do something simply for the sake of "doing something", bad unintended things will happen.

To be clear I'm using "logic" in a technical, mathematical sense.  I'm talking about using basic undergraduate logic. 

I don't think Alex B gets it.
Murder is a social issue, not a constitutional issue!
Implement social change. Get them to stop wanting to kill, rape, rob, and extort each other, and the weak and innocent! Until then, gun controll will change nothing.
As long as there are barbaric ass holes that wish to do harm to me, my family, or my neighbors...
I WILL BE PACKING!!
Hopefully I'll have the superior firepower and skills to outmatch any aggressor, and defend the things I hold dear...
If you want to take my rights and freedoms away...
Come and take them!
It won't be easy.
If you don't like that... Move.
God bless America!

The 2nd amendment was put into place to allow the people to defend themselves and overthrow a tyrannical government. It was an issue then and it is an issue now. Once you start allowing the government to regulate your basic human rights of defending yourself it is an incredibly steep and slippery slope into outright gun confiscation. Personally I don't want to live in a world where the only people who own guns are AlexB's scumbag neighbors in Oakland. IMO you trust your government way too much, Alex

The 2nd Amendment also speaks of a well-regulated militia. It doesn't prohibit laws controlling gun ownership. Do you really think that with the rampant gun violence in this country, that we have a "well-regulated militia?" What we have is not a militia, but a bunch of gun-obsessed libertarians who are lucky to have the 2nd Amendment to lean on for support.

Personally I think people get a little carried away quoting the constitution. Times have changed a lot since it was drafted. Amendments have been made, changed, and revoked and there's no reason why that can't or shouldn't ever happen again.

I don't think Alex B gets it.
Murder is a social issue, not a constitutional issue!
Implement social change. Get them to stop wanting to kill, rape, rob, and extort each other, and the weak and innocent! Until then, gun controll will change nothing.
As long as there are barbaric ass holes that wish to do harm to me, my family, or my neighbors...
I WILL BE PACKING!!
Hopefully I'll have the superior firepower and skills to outmatch any aggressor, and defend the things I hold dear...
If you want to take my rights and freedoms away...
Come and take them!
It won't be easy.
If you don't like that... Move.
God bless America!

You had me until the bolded.  There are plenty of people who love this country who want to remove the guns from most of the citizenry.  There is nothing inherently unpatriotic about that.  In fact, I think trying to change the system via the established legal processes and by constitutional amendment are perhaps the most patriotic actions a citizen can take.  They go through the trouble to change what they don't like precisely because they love this country.

Love it or Leave it is just plain wrong headed.

Alex B lives in Albany and Albany is so close to The Peoples Republic of Berkeley.
They look at things a little different  there, people in Berkeley protest when a "250 lbs kid" tries to take a gun from a cop after he robs a store and gets killed by a cop.
just a different point of view. but then again, maybe I could be wrong.

I used to feel that global confiscation of weaponry was the ideal to strive for.
Now, I think that the possibility of losing our freedom to live in our privileged 1st world is potentially under threat.
We really don't know who or what is plotting to make the next demoralizing move in the global chess game that some choose to ignore.
I know it may seem normal now to think only of our personal comforts and cozy interpersonal relationships, but stuff is and has always been brewing in dark corners. History has and will repeat itself.
Once all firearms are removed from the populace, and for some reason are needed to protect that populace, what then will be an immediate answer?
If we could all turn in our weapons and achieve complete world peace forever instantly - I'm in.

Alex B lives in Albany and Albany is so close to The Peoples Republic of Berkeley.
They look at things a little different  there, people in Berkeley protest when a "250 lbs kid" tries to take a gun from a cop after he robs a store and gets killed by a cop.
just a different point of view. but then again, maybe I could be wrong.

I live in East Oakland. Used to rent in Albany, now I own in Oakland.

Once all firearms are removed from the populace, and for some reason are needed to protect that populace, what then will be an immediate answer?

Many other westernized countries have an unarmed populace with zero problems. What are you afraid of? Anything the government wants to do to us it already could regardless of how many of us have registered guns locked up in safes at home.

Yes, you're right. I shouldn't have said that. We need each other and our opinions to keep this country from falling apart.
Alex, I am sorry, that was immature on my part.
Thank you, Crash, for checking me.

My stance on this is more anectodal than anything else.

A former coworker of mine apparently had some problems with her daughter due to some text messages or something she found on her phone.  Shot her daughter, then herself. We're talking about a professional office worker here.  I'd wager a pretty penny that the ease of shooting her daughter with a handgun made that crime happen.  Maybe she would have done the same thing with a kitchen knife or hammer, maybe she wouldn't have.  Maybe she would have just grounded her daughter.  But the fact is two people died, an extinguished flame of youth.  Easy access to guns in this country is a huge problem.  Some believe that, some don't, and many people will find facts, statistics and half-truths that will prove either for or against, but its a simple fact that most murders are caused by guns.  The ability to have a weapon that can take an innocent life in an instant without thought or effort is sort of ridiculous when you step back and think of it.

There's obviously a lot more related to gun violence than just guns, demographics plays a huge role in it.  But with our current political spectrum completely oblivious to the plight of the lower and lower middle class, that can't be solved.

The argument that you are safer with a gun in your home just doesn't hold true. If an intruder has a gun pointed at them, they are going to react in a genetically dictated, VERY well understood, and WIDELY accepted manner. They are going to display a "fight or flight" reaction. If they happen to have a gun, too, they're probably going to fire it at you.

This is why data and statistics clearly show that your chances of getting shot go UP, not down, if you own a gun.

It is also human nature to feel that we are above statistics. We all feel like we're the outliers who will come out on top. WE are the ones who are actually going to follow through on our New Years resolutions. WE are the ones who are going to get the first shot off in a conflict. WE will persevere in situations that statistically don't work out in our favor.

You can't all be outliers. It just doesn't work that way.

Once all firearms are removed from the populace, and for some reason are needed to protect that populace, what then will be an immediate answer?

Many other westernized countries have an unarmed populace with zero problems. What are you afraid of? Anything the government wants to do to us it already could regardless of how many of us have registered guns locked up in safes at home.

You are correct, and if everyone else wants to get on board I'm in. I am personally not afraid of my government and think it is the best situation in which a human could exist.

The argument that you are safer with a gun in your home just doesn't hold true. If an intruder has a gun pointed at them, they are going to react in a genetically dictated, VERY well understood, and WIDELY accepted manner. They are going to display a "fight or flight" reaction. If they happen to have a gun, too, they're probably going to fire it at you.

This is why data and statistics clearly show that your chances of getting shot go UP, not down, if you own a gun.

It is also human nature to feel that we are above statistics. We all feel like we're the outliers who will come out on top. WE are the ones who are actually going to follow through on our New Years resolutions. WE are the ones who are going to get the first shot off in a conflict. WE will persevere in situations that statistically don't work out in our favor.

You can't all be outliers. It just doesn't work that way.

that may be true - for you

and our common bond ..Kayaks and Fishing..we`re all the same   

you're the best VK