We don't want to take your guns...read H.R. 4269

Yes, you're right. I shouldn't have said that. We need each other and our opinions to keep this country from falling apart.
Alex, I am sorry, that was immature on my part.
Thank you, Crash for checking me.

Cool.  Its an emotional topic and love it or leave it is ingrained in our political thought when we disagree with someone.  Its just extremely unhelpful in moving the ball forward in any type of discussion and only serves to diminish the opinion of the other person/side with no logical basis for doing so.  It's been a pet peeve of mine for years.

but its a simple fact that most murders are caused by guns. 

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

The argument that you are safer with a gun in your home just doesn't hold true.

Your kids are 100x more likely to die if you have a swimming pool than if you have a gun, but we don't see a large rush to register swimming pools. 

If it wasn't such a serious topic this thread would be hilarious.

so-- you all are ok with a few tens of thousands of folks getting killed per year ?

zero problems... no there`s still gun violence..not as much or frequency but it`s there...ie. Great Britian

 The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre, the 1989 Monkseaton shootings, and the 1996 Dunblane school massacre, i

You're citing incidents that are years, even decades apart. Anomalies, really. What we have in the states is practically a daily occurrence. Totally different.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

Sure, about 2/3 of the murders in this country involve the use of a firearm to commit the crime. 

The USA is also 121st in the world in murder rate at 3.8 per 100,000.  Slightly more than half of the world's countries have a higher murder rate than we do. 

If it wasn't such a serious topic this thread would be hilarious.

so-- you all are ok with a few tens of thousands of folks getting killed per year ?

That is just as unhelpful as love it or leave it, and I think you know that.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

Sure, about 2/3 of the murders in this country involve the use of a firearm to commit the crime. 

The USA is also 121st in the world in murder rate at 3.8 per 100,000.  Slightly more than half of the world's countries have a higher murder rate than we do.

And its absolutely unacceptable that we have a murder rate as high as we have.

If it wasn't such a serious topic this thread would be hilarious.

so-- you all are ok with a few tens of thousands of folks getting killed per year ?

I guess we have to be - sort of like the trade-off in automobile use/deaths, which seems to be acceptable.

zero problems... no there`s still gun violence..not as much or frequency but it`s there...ie. Great Britian

 The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre, the 1989 Monkseaton shootings, and the 1996 Dunblane school massacre, i

You're citing incidents that are years, even decades apart. Anomalies, really. What we have in the states is practically a daily occurrence. Totally different.

No no no no you don't get to hand waive away as anomalies the things that happen in other countries when we are having a discussion that turns to comparing the USA to other countries.  No.  Not totally different and its completely relevant to the discussion.

There are 320 million people in the USA and everyone wants to compare to France with 65 million or the UK with 64 million or Australia with 23 million and then hand waive away the things that occur less often in countires with 1/10th to 1/4th of the population of the USA.

You don't get to do that.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

Sure, about 2/3 of the murders in this country involve the use of a firearm to commit the crime. 

The USA is also 121st in the world in murder rate at 3.8 per 100,000.  Slightly more than half of the world's countries have a higher murder rate than we do.

And its absolutely unacceptable that we have a murder rate as high as we have.

We agree on that.  We don't agree that firearm ownership is the main contributor to our murder rate.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

Sure, about 2/3 of the murders in this country involve the use of a firearm to commit the crime. 

The USA is also 121st in the world in murder rate at 3.8 per 100,000.  Slightly more than half of the world's countries have a higher murder rate than we do.

And its absolutely unacceptable that we have a murder rate as high as we have.

I agree. Most countries with higher murder rates are undeveloped. For a westernized, supposedly educated country, we are a joke when it comes to safety.

I appreciate the apology, Caddy, but it wasn't really needed. And thanks, VK, for the East Bay love.

This is always a heated issue, and the debate always gets a little rowdy.

I'm not saying I have all the answers. I'm just saying we, as a country, should do SOMETHING tangible to address this embarrassing issue. It's making us look bad... I'm not saying we should jump into anything other than universal background checks and expanded gun buyback programs. Everything else should be studied further, but these two are no brainers and are actually supported by a large percentage of gun owners.

And its absolutely unacceptable that we have a murder rate as high as we have.
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We agree on that.  We don't agree that firearm ownership is the main contributor to our murder rate.
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Crash, what do you think is the main contributor? Or is just so vast, fuzzy, and complicated that there's no sense in even trying to pinpoint it and stop it? And don't change the topic by saying that more of us need to play basketball with disadvantaged youths.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

Sure, about 2/3 of the murders in this country involve the use of a firearm to commit the crime. 

The USA is also 121st in the world in murder rate at 3.8 per 100,000.  Slightly more than half of the world's countries have a higher murder rate than we do.

And its absolutely unacceptable that we have a murder rate as high as we have.

We agree on that.  We don't agree that firearm ownership is the main contributor to our murder rate.

I absolutely don't believe that firearm ownership is the main contributor to our murder rate.  But it (ownership) is a facilitator.  To lower our murder rate significantly, we have to take many steps, in roughly this order:  economy, education (including parental), reduction in weapons, spirituality/compassion, reduction in drug use facilitation.  Preference is to take them all at once, but any of them would help.