We don't want to take your guns...read H.R. 4269

This is brilliant! You just said what I was thinking, but much more eloquently.

I love how the second amendment is viewed as still current and infallible and wholly relevant to modern day, but the third amendment a ridiculous anachronism of a time long past.

That said, if anyone tries to quarter soldiers in my house without my consent, I'm calling up my well-regulated militia friends.

Ok... continue.

Just through pure statistics - we had between 8-12,000 gun murders in 2012.  If we had let's say, 90% less handguns, I'm extraordinarily confident there would have been less.

Crash, what do you think is the main contributor? Or is just so vast, fuzzy, and complicated that there's no sense in even trying to pinpoint it and stop it? And don't change the topic by saying that more of us need to play basketball with disadvantaged youths.

Here's the link to the rabbit hole:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-offense

Look at the race data.  Young black men commit a vastly disproportionate number of homicides.  How to change that?  Probably start with taking away the glorification of violence and the creation of a subculture that is wholly uniinvested in its own future.

If I was philosopher king I'd immediately stop incarcerating black men at the rate we do, start social programs designed to complete educations or trade school for disadvantaged youth, give them housing, food, medical care and the rest of the so called "socialist" welfare programs with easy access, and heavily promote a campaign of violence being wrong.  Make at risk kids go to the morgue and watch an autopsy on a young person who was murdered.  More scared straight programs.

And for the love of God, play basketball with them.

OK good stuff here guys, but I am done, moving to fishing only
Not gonna give up my armament voluntarily right now, but also am not gonna murder anyone either.
I urge others to keep a safe sensibility when dealing with guns, bows, knives, cars, etc.
Happy New Year, I like all of my NCKA bros!!!!

There are 320 million people in the USA and everyone wants to compare to France with 65 million or the UK with 64 million or Australia with 23 million and then hand waive away the things that occur less often in countires with 1/10th to 1/4th of the population of the USA.

You don't get to do that.
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Percentage of gun deaths per  100,000
Australia .93, Canada 2.22, Germany 1.1, France 2.83, USA 10.64 Wikipedia but other sources are similar

The Internet is an amazing thing.
Almost 1/3 of murders in 2012 were committed using things other than firearms.
Handguns are the leading implement of death,
while rifles, shotguns ,and firearms "not listed" total less than knives, or fists/feet.
Why are they banning certain rifles??
If there were more of a breakdown you'd see that "assault weapons" make up less than 2% of items used to commit hommicide.
The current legislation is just an attempt to put a bandaid over a festering wound.
Something to make people feel secure, and that our government is doing something to keep these lunatics from attacking us again. I have news for you, it's not going to end.
People in the world HATE us.
In some ways I understand why.
Banning weapons isn't going to change that.
It won't fix our shittty heath programs, our improve our terrible public school systems... and it won't stop someone with malicious intent from doing harm to others.
Timothy McVey killed hundreds of people with diesel and nitrate fertilizer. 
The boys at columbine had propane bombs. (Luckily not detonated)
The lady in Vegas used her  freaking car for pete's sake.
Human beings are disgusting filthy creatures bent on self destruction.
Ban that!

There are 320 million people in the USA and everyone wants to compare to France with 65 million or the UK with 64 million or Australia with 23 million and then hand waive away the things that occur less often in countires with 1/10th to 1/4th of the population of the USA.

You don't get to do that.

Percentage of gun deaths per  100,000
Australia .93, Canada 2.22, Germany 1.1, France 2.83, USA 10.64 Wikipedia but other sources are similar

[/quote]

Those numbers include suicides.  Firearms are the most popular method of suicide in the US but not any of those other countries.  And the US has a lower suicide rate than France.  You have to control for suicides since a suicidal person can just go jump off a bridge if they don't have access to a firearm.

Just through pure statistics - we had between 8-12,000 gun murders in 2012.  If we had let's say, 90% less handguns, I'm extraordinarily confident there would have been less.

How many less?  And how much would other violent crime change, up or down?  Robberies, rapes, ADWs, etc. 

This thread reminds me of the presidency elections..... Were fukd either way!!!!

And do you think the murder rate by gun is equivalent in Europe, Canada, Australia and USA?

The argument that you are safer with a gun in your home just doesn't hold true. If an intruder has a gun pointed at them, they are going to react in a genetically dictated, VERY well understood, and WIDELY accepted manner. They are going to display a "fight or flight" reaction. If they happen to have a gun, too, they're probably going to fire it at you.

This is why data and statistics clearly show that your chances of getting shot go UP, not down, if you own a gun.

It is also human nature to feel that we are above statistics. We all feel like we're the outliers who will come out on top. WE are the ones who are actually going to follow through on our New Years resolutions. WE are the ones who are going to get the first shot off in a conflict. WE will persevere in situations that statistically don't work out in our favor.

You can't all be outliers. It just doesn't work that way.

100% wrong!!

Anyone coming into my house, uninvited will first be met by my dog, who will not bite, but will sound like you are about to be breakfast. That is the distraction I need to place a well placed bullet into their vermillion pyramid. Even if they have a gun on my forehead, finger on the trigger, they die and drop the gun. That is what I train for. Weapon or not, they are in the zone of danger once they cross the threshold of my home, and I can presume that they intend to inflict bodily harm if confronted. That has been upheld in courts of law for decades. Civil court is a different story.

Just through pure statistics - we had between 8-12,000 gun murders in 2012.  If we had let's say, 90% less handguns, I'm extraordinarily confident there would have been less.

And I am absolutely confident it would not have made a difference, those people would still be dead.  Maybe not by a gun, but by a knife, bat or pipe, but dead  none the less.  Liberals in Briton now want to ban butcher knives as it has become the number one weapon for murder. Goes to show it wasn't the guns fault, those who will kill, will find a way.

Just through pure statistics - we had between 8-12,000 gun murders in 2012.  If we had let's say, 90% less handguns, I'm extraordinarily confident there would have been less.

How many less?  And how much would other violent crime change, up or down?  Robberies, rapes, ADWs, etc.

I'd guess the gun murder rate would have been down between 1 murder and 8,855 murders  Most likely, 5-6K less murders assuming competent law enforcement.   I don't know about if it would affect other crime for sure, but I would be pretty confident that robberies and home invasions would go down.  There's an argument to be made that criminals would have less fear of armed homeowners, but I think it would still even out statistically since not every one of those 10% of handguns would be owned by a criminal.  I think home defense shotgun ownership would go up significantly though.  I'm actually OK with concealed carry, but think there should be mandatory in depth background, firearms safety and control to do so.

On second thought, not impulse, that estimate is way high.  probably ~3k-4K less.

Nope.  There has never been a single murder caused by an inanimate object.  It can't form the requisite intent.

Use your law degree for semantics all you want, you know exactly what I meant and you know its true.

Sure, about 2/3 of the murders in this country involve the use of a firearm to commit the crime. 

The USA is also 121st in the world in murder rate at 3.8 per 100,000.  Slightly more than half of the world's countries have a higher murder rate than we do.

And its absolutely unacceptable that we have a murder rate as high as we have.

I agree. Most countries with higher murder rates are undeveloped. For a westernized, supposedly educated country, we are a joke when it comes to safety.

Common core will fix it

this will be my last statement  and I`m going off the deep end but ..maybe ..but I always laugh when I hear this  " it is my god given right under the...dec.of indep,bill of rights, constitution... ''

 I always think to myself... really so when the articles and document were written the authors of those documents  knew what rights god had in store for us, they had a direct line to gods will

so then does that make those documents a religious text i.e. such as the bible or torah etc etc...  was it an arbitrary decision to write "god grants us with certain inalienable rights ..."  or was it a gods will ....so much for separation of church and state...so if god wants me to own a firearm I guess it`s all good

but then in a another document   a god says thou shalt not kill...

huh

maybe god smokes weed and makes this stuff up for amusement 

I hope we can find answer 

I have been told by a few Jewish friends that is not Thou shall not kill, but thou shall not murder.  Now I don't claim to read ancient Hebrew text.  Keep in mind the Israelites on more than one occasion had to fight in the old testament.