Paddling fundamentals

I feel like every time i get in my boat,I am practicing not getting cut. However, I am only practicing band-aid application when I stop and pull out the first-aid kit and actually take the time to practice or when i get cut.

I wish it were that simple.  I guess I should distinguish between practicing and learning.  Practicing is not necessarily learning.  I once corrected a person that was holding their paddle upside down.  They said they had been paddling for 4-5 years.  They had been practicing paddling for 4-5 years but never learned the correct way to hold a paddle !?!?

-Allen

I think this Sunday would be a perfect morning for you to give an instructional class Allen. The inner bay will be calm enough for basics and its supposed to be a bit dicey outside this weekend so the more hardcore group could be led by you out to the north point for some rolling practice. What say? You and some of the other pro paddlers could really enlighten some less distinguished folk.

 I think it would be cool if we had a thread that taught us a new paddling tip or technique every week. Kind of like what Hojoman does with fish&hunt regulations.

Once again, Terry, you're thinking on a different plane than the majority of the community. The mere idea of practicing roll technique on a SOT fishing yak is one thing...but you're actually out there practicing and documenting it = you crazy. 

But if you have the skill level to be able to roll a SOT, you likely wouldn't have flipped in the first place.

This is kinda how I feel about it. I only see this as a useful/practical skill if you intend to run rivers w/minimal gear or surf ski in the break. Because there's way too much gear on my deck causing an imbalance...and too much drag from rods, holders, etc...to do it successfully on a normal yakfishing trip in the ocean. Plus, I don't want to loose gear if I fall out so I try to bail prematurely & keep my yak upright...if necessary.   

I think this Sunday would be a perfect morning for you to give an instructional class Allen. The inner bay will be calm enough for basics and its supposed to be a bit dicey outside this weekend so the more hardcore group could be led by you out to the north point for some rolling practice. What say? You and some of the other pro paddlers could really enlighten some less distinguished folk.

Let me ask you something Craig ... what do YOU think the overall paddling level is for NCKA?  How would you grade it?

-Allen

But if you have the skill level to be able to roll a SOT, you likely wouldn't have flipped in the first place.

This is kinda how I feel about it. I only see this as a useful/practical skill if you intend to run rivers w/minimal gear or surf ski in the break. Because there's way too much gear on my deck causing an imbalance...and too much drag from rods, holders, etc...to do it successfully on a normal yakfishing trip in the ocean. Plus, I don't want to loose gear if I fall out so I try to bail prematurely & keep my yak upright...if necessary.   

Well, it is useful and practical in terms of entended bracing.  If you have the skills to roll, then you can do a sculling brace, in which you are pretty much laying on the water.  Most here would probably just enter the water by the time they were this far laid over.  The thought that they could save themselves with a paddle stroke probably would never entered their mind.

A roll is nothing more than an extended brace.  You just happen to start upside down.

-Allen

I think this Sunday would be a perfect morning for you to give an instructional class Allen. The inner bay will be calm enough for basics and its supposed to be a bit dicey outside this weekend so the more hardcore group could be led by you out to the north point for some rolling practice. What say? You and some of the other pro paddlers could really enlighten some less distinguished folk.

Let me ask you something Craig ... what do YOU think the overall paddling level is for NCKA?  How would you grade it?

-Allen

 I can only grade the people that I have come in contact with. I wouldn't grade them either for most of them have been around a long time. To give an overall grade of all the members here would entail intimately paddling with each and every one of them. From what I see most people want to go out on a nice calm piece of water and do a little fishing. Was it not you that told that to Mr. Self?  I don't need to know how to roll my SOT. I have self rescued, as some call it, so many times I couldn't even tell you the amount. I don't know. What scares me the most is on a windy day and away from my fellows,and capsizing  and watching my kayak sail away 2 miles out. Im toast then. In a current with wind I probably would never make it back to shore unassisted. I am not a pro paddler. But I do know some. ill take a poll of them and find out what they think if that would help.

Now about that class at Albion? A perfect time to disperse knowledge and create a safer environment for your NCKA group. Respectfully, Craig

I can only grade the people that I have come in contact with. I wouldn't grade them either for most of them have been around a long time. To give an overall grade of all the members here would entail intimately paddling with each and every one of them. From what I see most people want to go out on a nice calm piece of water and do a little fishing. Was it not you that told that to Mr. Self?

Believe it or not, Mr. Self and I agree on more things than not.  I do not believe we disagree on our views of the skill level of the kayak fishing community.  Where we disagreed was on the messenging on how to improve it.  He believed in calling people names, and calling people out.

I don't need to know how to roll my SOT. I have self rescued, as some call it, so many times I couldn't even tell you the amount. I don't know. What scares me the most is on a windy day and away from my fellows,and capsizing  and watching my kayak sail away 2 miles out. Im toast then. In a current with wind I probably would never make it back to shore unassisted.

That's the thing Craig, if you could develop skills to help avoid those scary situations altogether, wouldn't you?

I am not a pro paddler. But I do know some. ill take a poll of them and find out what they think if that would help.

Now about that class at Albion? A perfect time to disperse knowledge and create a safer environment for your NCKA group. Respectfully, Craig

I am not a "qualified" instructor in any way.  But if someone wants to ask questions on the water, I'll do my best to answer.  Not sure if I have the time for a "class" at Albion.  I may have to leave early Sunday.

-Allen

I always want to learn more, because I have a lot to learn. If I was in sit inside in rough conditions voluntarily , you bet I would. 

I think this Sunday would be a perfect morning for you to give an instructional class Allen. The inner bay will be calm enough for basics and its supposed to be a bit dicey outside this weekend so the more hardcore group could be led by you out to the north point for some rolling practice. What say? You and some of the other pro paddlers could really enlighten some less distinguished folk.

Let me ask you something Craig ... what do YOU think the overall paddling level is for NCKA?  How would you grade it?

-Allen

 I can only grade the people that I have come in contact with. I wouldn't grade them either for most of them have been around a long time. To give an overall grade of all the members here would entail intimately paddling with each and every one of them. From what I see most people want to go out on a nice calm piece of water and do a little fishing. Was it not you that told that to Mr. Self?  I don't need to know how to roll my SOT. I have self rescued, as some call it, so many times I couldn't even tell you the amount. I don't know. What scares me the most is on a windy day and away from my fellows,and capsizing  and watching my kayak sail away 2 miles out. Im toast then. In a current with wind I probably would never make it back to shore unassisted. I am not a pro paddler. But I do know some. ill take a poll of them and find out what they think if that would help.

Now about that class at Albion? A perfect time to disperse knowledge and create a safer environment for your NCKA group. Respectfully, Craig

Wind sucks. Swells can be dealt with (unless there mixed), but wind makes kayaking and fishing not enjoyable IMO.

I would like to try some thigh straps. Even though the Stealth locks in more than most, it still is not connected as much as Id like when conditions get rough. Mixed swell and wind has made my ass pucker, would have had more control with the straps.

 

But if you have the skill level to be able to roll a SOT, you likely wouldn't have flipped in the first place.

This is kinda how I feel about it. I only see this as a useful/practical skill if you intend to run rivers w/minimal gear or surf ski in the break. Because there's way too much gear on my deck causing an imbalance...and too much drag from rods, holders, etc...to do it successfully on a normal yakfishing trip in the ocean. Plus, I don't want to loose gear if I fall out so I try to bail prematurely & keep my yak upright...if necessary.   

Well, it is useful and practical in terms of entended bracing.  If you have the skills to roll, then you can do a sculling brace, in which you are pretty much laying on the water.  Most here would probably just enter the water by the time they were this far laid over.  The thought that they could save themselves with a paddle stroke probably would never entered their mind.

A roll is nothing more than an extended brace.  You just happen to start upside down.

-Allen

I dont think a sculling stroke would work without thigh straps, they certainly would make surf launching safer and more fun. Im currently teaching a buddy WW and one of the things To understand is that a lot of kayaking is counterintuitive. I see so many people let go of there paddle and put their hand out which is an almost certain capsize. The paddle is what keeps the yak upright. And you already touched on onshore lean. Its counterintuitive to lean into trouble but thats what you do.

All this talk, Im getting the itch to go kayak surfin, going to be blowin to hard for anything else up this way.

I dont think a sculling stroke would work without thigh straps, they certainly would make surf launching safer and more fun.

It works ... perhaps not as "pure" as if done in a decked kayak.

But really what I'm getting at is the principle of it all.  You can lean over on edge a lot more if you know what to do with your paddle!  If you don't ... kerplunk!

-Allen

I dont think a sculling stroke would work without thigh straps, they certainly would make surf launching safer and more fun.

It works ... perhaps not as "pure" as if done in a decked kayak.

But really what I'm getting at is the principle of it all.  You can lean over on edge a lot more if you know what to do with your paddle!  If you don't ... kerplunk!

-Allen

Thats the long and short of it, and lean on edge is where the fun is. To me, the most important things to learn before getting on the water, especially rivers and ocean, are low brace, forward and reverse sweep strokes (which are really extended braces, very useful) high brace, and the modified sweep (stay upright while moving forward). And of course self rescue. As the saying goes: rolling up is a sign of success, having to roll in the first place is a sign of failure. Have these things in the tool box and you can enjoy a yak's secondary stability much more as well.

I'm unfamiliar with straps and braces on a SOT. I'm assuming that it would lock one into a seated position? If that is the case, it makes my gut ache just thinking about me strapped into an upside down SOT in a bumpy ocean with the wind howling. And that isn't a reason for me to try to learn how to roll successfully either. I'm gonna bail if need be, hold on to my strapped paddle, right my boat an get back aboard and lament about paying Davey Jones my ransom with fishing gear.

That being said, I would be willing to bet that I would learn some things from a paddling clinic even though I have paddled for quite a while now. I know that my arms/shoulders will be sore before my obliques will be.

Braces have to do with paddle positioning, not the boat. If you have good bracing strokes you wont need to bail. Thigh straps slip over your knee and give you more control with your paddle strokes and boat control with your hips. If you capsize straighten your legs and the straps release. Easy and effective.

Braces have to do with paddle positioning, not the boat. If you have good bracing strokes you wont need to bail. Thigh straps slip over your knee and give you more control with your paddle strokes and boat control with your hips. If you capsize straighten your legs and the straps release. Easy and effective.

Oh, ok, bracing being using the paddle for leverage. That would be good that straps release easily, I wouldn't want to fumble with unbuckling something in that scenario.