Paddling fundamentals

Rolling a SOT is amazing, I'm still working on my roll in a WW boat or long boat. Paddling fundamentals are often times the most over looked aspect of what we do. It more about what lure and less about what paddle. Learning proper strokes and rescues has helped me and my kayak fishing more than anything. Being able to paddle 15 miles and feel good afterwords was more than reason enough for me to seek out solid training. I've noticed my average speed in my Cuda increase and my stamina increase along with it. Not to mention confidence.
So yea basic paddling fundamentals should be in every kayak fisherman arsenal at some point. For most people, right or wrong, it's usually after they really get the bug and want to step up their game.

I apologize for the threadjack. I guess i didn't like the direction the thread was going either. It felt like a lecture on the inadequacies of our members paddling skills by polepole.

Why didn't you just say so Jack?  Just think of it as tough love!

All I heard you saying was that you felt that self rescues was the single skill you really must have.  I just don't agree with that.  Is it an important skill?  Absolutely!  But I think we are lacking in other more basic paddle skills.  And I do believe that we are lacking in even self rescue skills.  Do you disagree with that?  I'd venture to guess that of the incidents we've had at events, at least 1/4 or more of them couldn't re-enter on their own.  Even the number of incidents at events is alarming to me, and similar thoughts come up in campfire conversations all the time, so I know I'm not alone on this one.

At least we both agree that we'd like everyone to stay safe, right?   

-Allen

Of course there is room for improvement and lots of it. But in all the years that i have been in NCKA, I don't remember anyone ever getting hurt in their kayak. Do you? Sometimes tough love can backfire. Passing that kind of mass grading and judgement on the people can come across as looking down on us. I don't like it. but thats just my opinion. If you want to help us become better paddlers, i believe their are better ways. Most people arent going to find the time or money to take classes. So what about creating a Hojoman style thread about paddling skills and techniques?

Of course there is room for improvement and lots of it. But in all the years that i have been in NCKA, I don't remember anyone ever getting hurt in their kayak. Do you?

I certainly would not like to see someone hurt.  But I would like to see general awareness and skills improve BEFORE that happens.  And yes, there have been kayak fishing deaths on the west coast.  I do know that we get like 250 thousand unique pageviews here.  So I can't say for certain that any of those unfortunate incidents didn't involve people that have visited this site.

Sometimes tough love can backfire. Passing that kind of mass grading and judgement on the people can come across as looking down on us. I don't like it. but thats just my opinion.

Sorry if you find this offensive.  That certainly was not my intent.  On the other hand, I don't hear anyone else getting their panties in a bunch over this.  Do you disagree with the message or your perceived delivery of it?  I'll try to polish my delivery, but please don't dilute the message.

If you want to help us become better paddlers, i believe their are better ways. Most people arent going to find the time or money to take classes.

Better ways than what, bringing it up as a topic of conversation?  And I don't think I was recommending that taking classes was the only way to go.  I recognize that people learn in different ways.  However, one of the first steps in learning is recognizing that there is something to learn.

So what about creating a Hojoman style thread about paddling skills and techniques?

Isn't that what we're doing here?  The title of this thread is "Paddling fundamentals" after all.

-Allen

Better ways than essentially telling us we suck as kayakers.

I really don't see any teaching technique on this thread.I see people showing their videos and throwing around a lot of high-end paddling technical terminology. I was thinking of a thread that teaches and helps people learn. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the videos but there is more to it than a title.

I suck at paddling, but then I have spent the last 4 or 5 years pedaling a Revo, when I do have to paddle takes me a while to figure out my paddle is upside down.

I would like to see a video of someone rolling one of those new Hobie PA 17's 

Better ways than essentially telling us we suck as kayakers.

I really don't see any teaching technique on this thread.I see people showing their videos and throwing around a lot of high-end paddling technical terminology. I was thinking of a thread that teaches and helps people learn. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the videos but there is more to it than a title.

Havent seen any high end technical terminology, just basic kayak paddling terminology.

Im not sure why youre so offended by this thread. So it started with someone asking for some guidance on his roll. Thats what a thread like this should be: a place for folks to ask questions and such and for members of the community to give feedBack. Its a good platform for doing exactly what youre saying. So lets start adding some content.

Heres a couple articles:
http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/Articles/Instruction/endurance.html
http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/Articles/Instruction/EndurancePosture.html
http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/Articles/Instruction/PaddleStraight.htm

So what about creating a Hojoman style thread about paddling skills and techniques?

I think that's a great idea.

And I don't think I was recommending that taking classes was the only way to go.  I recognize that people learn in different ways.  However, one of the first steps in learning is recognizing that there is something to learn.

I'm taking classes right now.  I've been paddling these thing for like 25 years (even as a guide)......and there are many things I still suck at--like rolling.  There's lots to learn and no one knows it all.  So, I'm saying, I do recommend taking classes.

I'm getting instructions from Jeff and Cate at Liquid Fusion Kayaking.  These folks are experts--and they still take classes.

Excellent points. Never stop learning.

Better ways than essentially telling us we suck as kayakers.

Gee Jack, you're putting words in my mouth here.  I never said we suck as kayakers.  I said I'd grade us at D+/C-, which to me, is slightly below average, with a grade of C generally being accepted as average.

I really don't see any teaching technique on this thread.I see people showing their videos and throwing around a lot of high-end paddling technical terminology. I was thinking of a thread that teaches and helps people learn. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the videos but there is more to it than a title.

Hah!  Sorry you don't understand what we are saying, but there is a bunch of BASIC paddling technique being discussed here.  I think you just made my point for me.   

-Allen

This thread got me thinking about the effort necessary for a kayak angler to right their own flipped boat while they themselves are in the water. On Saturday I had to flip a cuda14 back over & found it to be pretty hard in a choppy ocean. I also will add having about the same difficulty flipping my revo13 back over one time when I was kayak diving & swam back up to find it flipped over some how. I've seen some comparisons about which boats are more stable than others for fishing but never have seen anything about which boats are easier to right after flipping. My guess is that the more wider/heavier boats are going to be more difficult to right once flipped. I'll have to flip my Adventure next time I'm out just to see difference, if any, since it's narrower & I haven't flipped it since I got it. jim

Better ways than essentially telling us we suck as kayakers.

Gee Jack, you're putting words in my mouth here.  I never said we suck as kayakers.  I said I'd grade us at D+/C-, which to me, is slightly below average, with a grade of C generally being accepted as average.

I really don't see any teaching technique on this thread.I see people showing their videos and throwing around a lot of high-end paddling technical terminology. I was thinking of a thread that teaches and helps people learn. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the videos but there is more to it than a title.

Hah!  Sorry you don't understand what we are saying, but there is a bunch of BASIC paddling technique being discussed here.  I think you just made my point for me.   

-Allen

yeah, that's it. I don't understand what you guys are saying. Maybe we should go for paddle sometime. Then you can judge my paddling skills to my face. Hah!

This thread got me thinking about the effort necessary for a kayak angler to right their own flipped boat while they themselves are in the water. On Saturday I had to flip a cuda14 back over & found it to be pretty hard in a choppy ocean. I also will add having about the same difficulty flipping my revo13 back over one time when I was kayak diving & swam back up to find it flipped over some how. I've seen some comparisons about which boats are more stable than others for fishing but never have seen anything about which boats are easier to right after flipping. My guess is that the more wider/heavier boats are going to be more difficult to right once flipped. I'll have to flip my Adventure next time I'm out just to see difference, if any, since it's narrower & I haven't flipped it since I got it. jim

I would wager you are correct. Flipping my x requires climbing upon the boat and grabbing the other side to right it. The pro fisha is like flipping a surfboard. X has a 34ish beam and weighs 70some odd lbs, the stealth 26" beam and 50lbs. Wide with aflat hull for initial stability does have its own drawbacks.

Went back to basics. Started using a training mask to help me slow it all down and focus on a solid set up before I let it rip. Traded out the Ocean Kayak shock cord straps and started using traditional slip straps. This was a huge help. When I start to fatigue ,or become frustrated, my driving knee will still slip but it is due to a loss of focus rather than strap failure. Im still using the extended paddle but slowly getting closer to mid-shaft. Still collecting GroPro time and will probably sit down this winter and start working on a video. Until then, here are a few more still shots in sequence of one of my training rolls.
I think I may be bringing up my head a little early in this one. Still ugly, but I feel like I am getting better.

Sorry if I missed it but which boat are you using in the last post?

BTW, the thread is engaging IMHO.