Paddling fundamentals

 I have always thought it odd that there is no section on this site that focuses on paddling skills.
I suppose that the safety section will be the most appropriate place to seek some help with my paddle dexterity.
One of my goals this year was to strengthen my fundamentals and I have had some difficulties with rolling the longer SOTs. I am curious what techniques are being used by others. The first roll that I was taught was the C to C style but that was in WW boats. I have no significant time in sea kayaks and that may be part of the reason that my success percentage isn't higher.
All of my successful rolls are pawlata style but I am not interested in using that as a crutch.
One thing that I have found challenging is tightening my set up. I may have to change to different straps.


Or maybe just get stronger.



 I've been documenting and it has been a big help and I am compiling footage every day that I work on my skills.
I was hoping that some of the "pros" here might have some suggestions on how they roll the long boats.

Thanks

 Well I guess that solves the mystery as to why there is no skills section on the site.
I went back and studied the videos. It was very apparent that as my frustration increased my execution decreased. Shocking.
My feeling that I wasn't getting enough resistance with the Ocean Kayak legs straps was confirmed.
I enjoy using these straps because they are comfortable. Part of that all day comfort is due to the hip end clip being attached with shock cord. It unfortunately negates a lot of the power from my driving knee.
You can see how high my knee comes up without twisting the boat around with it. Not good.



I noticed on another attempt that when the driving knee struggled to twist the boat over, I wasn't able to keep the paddle on the surface long enough into the sweep and the paddle dove.



Im going to try and buy some more time on the sweep and maybe create a little leverage, but I believe that bungeeless straps will help me find the path to bombproof SOT roll.

 The GoPro really has been a good coach. While working on other skills I am able to see that my techniques are often sloppy and I'll be able make changes and sharpen them up. It might be time to hit the books again too.

Thanks for this enlightening video.  You're a much stronger all around paddler than most, especially me!

They are only showing as pics for me, no video. The roll I use is a combat roll, which starts at the front of the boat, chin on the deck and ends in a high brace blades stays on the surface the whole way back. The move itself rolls the boat, which is crucial in oxygenated water. Also, with the high brace finish you can scull the rest of the way up if you dont quite get there. Not sure because I cant see the video, but c to c uses leverage from a vertical body position?  You could try holding the paddle closer to the blade to extend it further from the boat to create more leverage. If your thigh straps give, no roll will work.

Paddling fundamentals doesn't seem to be a common topic on this site, though I wish it were.

I think I managed to roll my 10' wave witch once, using the old C-to-C. I've tried & failed to roll either of my larger SOTs.
I use a set of straps that I think are Surf-to-Summit brand, with no shock cord. They lock in pretty well, IF the padeyes on the boat are located in the right spot. I find that if I have 'em cranked down enough that I could cosider a roll, they get uncomfortable after a short time, so I haven't used them on the T140 in a long time. Also, they catch hooks like crazy.

I've been musing on paddle form since you posted this. I like it!
Especially seeing the attention that the Predator is getting, I feel like the solid paddling skills that used to be considered pretty mandatory (or heck, even paddling classes in general) are being passed over in favor of wider boats and the activity of fishing. But then, I'm a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to kayaking these days .

Sometimes I feel like I'll be yelling at clouds and talking about the days we wore onions on our belts before too long.

There are very few paddlers here who have taken any kind of kayaking class. Paddling fundamentals is severely lacking in this group, especially among those new to the sport who go directly to Hobies or wider kayaks. Many newcomers ignore the saying, "You are a kayaker first, and a fisherman second."

I am often asked about the purpose of the Surf to Summit thigh straps I have on my Trident 13, as not many members have seen or used them. I only wear my thigh straps when I am paddling. When I am fishing, I pull the thigh straps into the foot wells and rest my legs on top of them to prevent catching hooks.

Nail on the head, krusty: kayaker first. The big stable boats and hobies do give a false sense of security. Knowing how to properly brace and knowing the proper strokes that can get you through when conditions go south are essential. The same thing has happened in WW boating. It used to be essential that everyone in the group be familiar with knots, throw ropes and techniques to save each other if things went south. But outfitters with stable inflatables make it easy for anyone to go run intermidiate rapids with no experience in either paddling or river rescue/safety.

 These are just stills from GoPro footage, but I do plan on sharing my work after I document a few hundred more rolls. Hopefully I can show some improvement. The GoPro coach can also be pretty humbling. I'll have to add it on to something else since watching me roll gets uninteresting fast.

Wizz,  I believe that its the combat roll or something similar that Im having the most success. The blade ends up behind me and my back is on the aft deck. Its not pretty. I have been using the extended paddle but I really don't want to be dependent on that. Im now using a longer paddle and its helped a lot. I don't think there are any rolls that find benefit in my pictured positioning. I just need to be better. Found some old straps that are sans shock cord and Im sure that they will help.
I do enjoy using the extended paddle, especially for sculling, but I don't want it to be part of my roll.

PISCEAN, I haven't been able to twist the T140 over either. I think Ill have a better shot at the 160 but I have a ways to go. Working on this has reminded me that the path to a great brace goes through the roll and working on other skills has showed me that they need to be kept sharp or will dull quickly.
Glad you enjoyed the topic.

 

If you want to borrow an older Ride135 to try rolling...

Wizz,  I believe that its the combat roll or something similar that Im having the most success. The blade ends up behind me and my back is on the aft deck. Its not pretty. I have been using the extended paddle but I really don't want to be dependent on that. Im now using a longer paddle and its helped a lot. I don't think there are any rolls that find benefit in my pictured positioning. I just need to be better. Found some old straps that are sans shock cord and Im sure that they will help.
I do enjoy using the extended paddle, especially for sculling, but I don't want it to be part of my roll.

Yeah, using the extended paddle emphasizes the use of power/force vs. technique.  If you're doing a combat roll ... hip snap, flexibility, and core strength.   And really accentuate rolling your wrist over to maximize your paddle face.  But you know that.  Just do it!

-Allen

Well I guess that solves the mystery as to why there is no skills section on the site.
So I went back and studied the videos. It was very apparent that as my frustration increased my execution decreased. Shocking.
My feeling that I wasn't getting enough resistance with the Ocean Kayak legs straps was confirmed.
I enjoy using these straps because they are comfortable. Part of that all day comfort is due to the hip end clip being attached with shock cord. It unfortunately negates a lot of the power from my driving knee.
You can see how high my knee comes up without twisting the boat around with it. Not good.



I noticed on another attempt that when the driving knee struggled to twist the boat over, I wasn't able to keep the paddle on the surface long enough into the sweep and the paddle dove.



Im going to try an upside down sculling brace to buy some more time on the sweep and maybe create a little leverage, but I believe that bungeeless straps will help me find the path to bombproof SOT roll.

 The GoPro really has been a good coach. While working on other skills I am able to see that my techniques are often sloppy and I am able make changes to sharpen them up. It might be time to hit the books again too.

Looks to me like you're trying to pull your head/body up first ... thrust your hip and put the kayak up, then let your body flow up.  Keeping your eye on the paddle face can help accentuate the motion you want.

-Allen

I'm also working on my roll. Getting instructions from Liquid Fusion folks.  Man, I'm having a hard time with it.

Oh, and yeah I agree about the kayaker first part.  Some of the guys reporting that they're getting worked in small surf on the way in could really benefit from simple bracing techniques.

anyone ever tried a lap belt, or whatever you call the 'buckle in" gizmo that is standard on surfskis?
I've often thought about making one for my little SOT, as I've seen some fiberglass wavewitches that had them.

I am a bit puzzled here. Why roll a sot? Most are designed for quick remounts. I get the need to be able to roll a sik when one is buttoned up in a spray skirt and a wet exit and remount is not fun. Doesn't adding the knee bracing equipment to a sot in order to roll add complications to the use of the yak without gaining much benefit? Curious is all.