Attn: Trident owners or test drivers

Light weight is an absolute must too!

I agree with Chuck on this issue. I see more and more people getting trailers for their kayaks...and it makes sense cause after a long day of paddling, it's a lot easier sliding a kayak in a trailer instead of trying to lift one overhead to mount on roof tops (the truck guys have it worse).

However, getting a trailer is not cheap and not everyone likes to tow...or simply don't have the storage area for a trailer.

And as we get older, dead lifting a 60-70 pound kayak becomes less desirable 

Let's make a light weight sit on top....but something that does not crack when dropped 

...just my 2 cents.

Love my Trailer ,

 Interesting thing about it, it has made storing 4 kayaks easier, Fits in my Garage, and does not take up as much space as having everything scattered, and still have my wall space ect....Attempted HighJacking by... .... Danglin

Yeah, I'm interested in getting trailer too, but not because I'm too wimpy to military press my kayak (my dad still can...), but because my family has grown and I can't fit everyone in one vehicle with all my gear.  My last trip I had 5 people and we needed 2 cars.  With 2 sons (and a wife who'll fish if she isn't watching a baby) I'm going to start needing some serious capacity soon.

not because I'm too wimpy to military press my kayak

Pspark.. None of us @NCKA are too wimpy to lift a yak above our heads... We're men... oh sh*t, was that my back again!! 

Z

I'd like a trailer too, but I think we're getting sidetracked here.

A trailer is no substitute for light kayak that's easy to carry and cartop.  Who wants to tow a trailer every time?  That's one reason a got rid of my power boat.

Jim,

I've spent approximately $8K since 1993 on new and used kayaks. This is for the hulls alone, and does not include any other equipment or accessories. Coincidentally, while I've paddled a ton of boats in this time period, all the boats I've purchased have been built by companies that are now owned by Johnson Outdoors. If OK/Necky wants my opinion, then they can contact me via this website.

Regards,
Scott

P.S. FWIW, I could see paying $3K for a boat that fit my combined fishing/touring needs, if it was least a 95% perfect fit. It's not like I haven't done it in the past. I doubt that you'd sell more than 10 of these a year though. I'm sure the market would be similar to the annual production of the Looksha II Kevlar back when they were in production.

Having already paid over 2k for a fishing kayak I would say if it was for the right boat I would do it again.

If OK/Necky wants my opinion, then they can contact me via this website.

I'll let them know where to find you 

If OK/Necky wants my opinion, then they can contact me via this website.

I'll let them know where to find you 

Jim,

Your choice of emoticons are exactly what I was expecting. I don't think you ( or your sponsors, for that matter) are necessarily looking for feedback on what a $3K boat should be. If you were serious about comments from folks that have actually purchased top end composite kayaks, then why did you spend 30 seconds to post your mocking smileys instead of PM'ing me?

I think this is a fishing expedition (pun intended) to see if the masses will pay significantly more than $1K for a fishing kayak. One that's already on the drawing board, and looks remarkably similar to the Trident in composite or thermoformed plastic. The thing is, I'd be utterly thrilled to be proven wrong.

Regards,
Scott

Hi Yakers:

          I make a rule of never buying the first production run of anything! I don't want to be the
Gunny Pig. I'll let others who can afford the price for first run design flaws O.C. new products.
                                                                                            Ernie

Maybe it was because of the tone of your comment, that "they can contact me here". Should OK or Necky even know who you are?? If I should know you, I am sorry I offended you by not.

If OK/Necky wants my opinion, then they can contact me via this website.

Isn't that what I did??

I posted the questions on a forum like this so we can get input from everyone, should I have known that you are the man to contact on this question. Any reason you could not just of answered the question or of PM'd me as I had asked in the original post?

Yes this is a fishing expedition, for information to make a better boat. As far as I know there is no composite or thermoform fishing kayak on the drawing board from OK or Necky or any of the JO companies. They don't tell me everything so I could be wrong. The closest that has come was at the OR show when I saw the composite Necky and I asked the head designer to make me a Trident out of that and he just laughed at me.

I am meeting with OK next month and was just looking for more ideas to bring to the table.

Hi Yaker:

        E-mail does have a problems with spin! It doesn't mirror our feelings like, a good old fashion face to face meeting. We all have egos and things to share but, Jim has done a lot to advance the art of Kayaking Fishing and, is a good source of Intel for Vendors' new product Dev.
       I'm glad Jim is taking the time to pass our input to O.K.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                  Ernie
                 

Jim,
I'm going to take a part of your post in reverse order:

Any reason you could not just of answered the question or of PM'd me as I had asked in the original post?

I apologize, as I overlooked that last bit of your post. Even so, there are reasons why I won't post my list, PM or email you. First of all, I'm tired of unilaterally bringing forth my ideas and hearing there's no market, and by the way you're ideas are silly anyway. Granted, you've been among those that have said my thoughts are not totally without merit. Still, it's a sore point.  Secondly, I've emailed you in the past regarding a different topic all together, and never received a response. Why should I think an email on this topic would be acknowledged? I'm not saying that you purposefully would ignore me, but to paraphrase the old saying -"Don't respond to email once, shame on you. Don't respond to email twice, shame on me."

I posted the questions on a forum like this so we can get input from everyone, should I have known that you are the man to contact on this question.

Of course you shouldn't know that I'm the man to contact regarding the question. First of all, I doubt that there's "the man" when it comes to feedback on this issue. Second of all, it's a huge old world, how should you know my background? Thus it was my job to tell you where I'm coming from, and my qualifications as a member of the $3K fishing kayak market. Since at best there are a very limited number of individuals that currently make up this market, doesn't it make sense that if one of them says "hey, contact me", that OK/Necky/JO or their kayak fishing representative would spend some time to take that first step? And yes, that last statement does mean I've got an ego that would like to be stroked. But that's just marketing 201 - make your top-end, low volume buyers feel special.

I can see how my tone came off as abrasive or curt, rather than straight to the point. So how about I try once more:

Jim,

I'd be happy to talk with someone from JO. But in the past, I've been made to feel as though a good portion of my ideas are without merit. For this reason, I am no longer willing to take the first step in initiating a dialog regarding a high performance fishing kayak. Here is why JO should think about taking that first step:

• In the past, I've purchased three new or used top end Necky kevlar touring boats. In addition I've purchased SOT boats that were thought to be among the better performers in the OK line. I don't like to buy low-end. This puts me in the target market for a high performance fishing kayak. One that could hopefully take the place of my current SOT fishing boats, as well as my current touring boat.
  
• I've been very happy with both the performance and service that Necky, OK and Humminbird products have given me in the past 14 years. To the point that these brands are those I look at first when contemplating future purchases
  
• While not a marine architect, I do have a rudimentary knowledge of hull design. I won't be asking for a low drag SOT that will keep me bone dry and is super stable.

I salute you Jim, and by extension JO for reaching out to the market. I understand completely why JO/Necky/OK would not consider it worth their while not to bother contacting me. I know that it won't even register with JO/Necky/OK if I purchase a high performance kayak from another builder, should it be the first to meet my minimum requirements.

Regards,
Scott

First off I apologize if I was negligent in responding to an email from you. If I am in town I am usually pretty good at getting back to people. I do get a lot of junk email and have been guilty of accidentally deleting the wrong things.

As far as responses you have received or not received from JO, I can't answer to that. Maybe your ideas are without merit in their eyes, maybe your ideas are too far ahead of their time. If that is the case I really want to hear them. Of course some ideas are just not practical or marketable, without knowing your ideas I can't even venture a guess. I would like to hear your ideas as well as every ones  and anyone who would like to have some input on making a better product. I honestly feel that the people at JO would like to hear them also.

I have this conversation with kayakers all over the country, one of the issues that people sometimes don't get is that these companies have to make a kayak that will appeal to every region of the country and the world. So there is always going to be some compromise to make it work as well as possible fr each of us. It is pretty fun to sit in a meeting with kayak fishermen for around the country and hear how something that one guy thinks will be the ultimate for a fishing kayak gets shot down by someone from another part of the country as being totally unneeded or impractical. It really is a balancing act of ideas, but a very fun process if everyone works together.

Jim made a simple request to give OK feedback on their new product. I emailed my feedback and Jim responded the same day. As an owner of 3 OK kayaks, I really appreciate their interest in customer feedback and the Trident is a testimony to the fact that they listen. We are lucky to have Jim and Joel in the OK camp. The Trident is not perfect but it is a definite upgrade from the P15 and has some great design details. I have spent several hours paddling and rigging the Trident and will have to say, IMO it sets the standard for ocean fishing kayaks in its price range. Take a real good look and paddle it and I think  you will agree.

Scott

I too have sent Jim an email with my thoughts on the "perfect kayak" - and if it "flys" with the majority, then, I''ll be a happy kayak fisherman....but like Jim said, not everyone will agree with what my thoughts are for the perfect kayak....it's just business nothing  personal.

IMO: the Trident is testimony of the fact that Ocean Kayaks did listen to our requests from the past (Thanks to Allen Bushnell as well). I can't seem to find the email thread on it but the "rod pod" is what a majority of Norcal OK paddlers wanted to see....and we got it    . And like Scott / Great Bass 2 had mentioned, it's not perfect but we are definitely getting closer. And the more we can voice our feed back, better kayaks will be made. If they don't listen, don't take it personal....again, it's just business.

Another option, if "they" don't listen: Win the lottery and mass produce your own idea of the "Perfect Fishing Kayak"