Upgrading my Kayak soon, Hobie Outback or Revolution 16?

Hello everyone,
I recently joined this forum following the advice of a good friend who is very good at catching fish from his Kayak. I have been spearfishing from my Kayak for many years along Mendocino and Sonoma coast, but I've been wanting to learn rod fishing for quite a while now and I am finally doing it. There are fish I like to eat, Halibut in particular,  I am not willing to go spearfishing for around Northern California. Not worth the risk, in IMHO, considering that many of the places where I could spearfish for Halibut are popular with Great Whites too. I am out there to enjoy my time in the water, not to prove my manhood to anyone, thank God! Don't have any left anyway, my wife made sure to clean out that closet many years ago! And I did catch my first Halibut out of Bolinas last Saturday, but this magnificent creature once it came a few inches from my Kayak, decided he or most likely, 'she' had other plans for Saturday night and took off in a tizzy.

At any rate, I have a big dilemma; It's time to upgrade my Kayak. I have a 15' Cobra Tourer more than 10 years old that has seen better days. It's nice, stable even though it's somewhat narrow, 28", has a very low profile in the water and is rated for 475 lbs. I am considering the Hobie Outback and the Revolution 16, but I would really like to get the Revo 16 rather than the Outback. I'd like to be able to go the distance and quickly and I am always finding choppy conditions out there, for which the Revo 16 is superb from what I gather. My kayak does really well in the chop but it's getting old, it's slow and have found one too many cracks in the hull. I am ready to buy but I don't want to plunge $3K for a new one or $2K+ used, without trying one out first. I need to take one for a spin, including jumping in the water and climbing back in to check it out. I am not really much of an athlete and weigh 210 lbs. (of which 30+ lbs are guests that have refused to leave for about 10 years by now) so I need to be sure it'll work for me before buying a Revo 16. Any ideas where I can go check one out? I live in Vallejo (North of the SF BAY). California Canoe and Kayak does not have any for testing. Only Outback. 

Thanks,
Rick

Welcome to NCKA Rick.   

Hey Rick, welcome to NCKA, good luck on figuring out whether to get the Revo, or Outback.

It sounds like you’re OK with a narrow kayak, so the Revo should suit you. I have an Adventure (older version of the Revo 16). I’ve never piloted an Outback, but I suspect the only advantages of the Outback would be more stability, easier rigging, and more storage above-deck.

I have an Old Town Sportsman PDL 106, I choose the PDL drive over Hobies.  The PDL gets excellent review and I concur, it is great! 

The basis difference is the PDL is a bicycle type (circular) peddling motion vs the Hobie push/push motion.


https://kayakanglermag.com/tactics-skills/buying-advice/best-ocean-fishing-kayaks/

Many kayak dealers are backordred for several weeks, so the available inventory may be the determining factor if you are ready to buy now.

Good luck,

Tom

Cool, thanks. I'll take a look at it. Only thing is, I want a long Kayak. I'll be ocean fishing almost exclusively and would like to cover as much area as possible and longer kayaks can't be beat for long treks.

Rick, I had both.   The Revo 16 is without a doubt faster, but it is also limited in space compared to Outback.  I suggest you demo both and decide then.   My gut says that the demo will determine your pick.  I want to recommend the 16, but I dont know how big of a person you are.  The obvious trade of is the Revo is less stable than the Outback.  Some say you will adjust to your hull over time, I never really did, so I had a dagger board with my Revo 16.  The Revo 16 also feels somewhat unstable when hit by the wave from behind (to me anyway), but man, that speed is so sexy.

Thanks to you all for your replies. I am still figuring out this board. Lost some comments I made last night somehow.

Nowhereman: I think I should be able to handle the Revo 16 well, but need to check it. In particular I need to see how hard or easy it is to get back in either Kayak from the water. A test that I plan to make.

Yakyakyak (hahah, funny nicknames you guys come up with!): I have a similar problem with the limited space in my kayak now. I've figured out ways to work with it and starting to get used to it. I am almost 6' tall and weigh (today) 210 lbs. so yes, I am big for these narrow kayaks. With regard with getting hit by waves from the rear, I have or had the same problem in my 15' Cobra Tourer. Then after years of using that kayak and having trouble getting out through the surf, I realized in needed to pull the rudder when approaching the surf. Once I did that, problem solved. I've been able to surf with the waves back to the beach ever since. I also I make sure that the yak is heavier in the back.

Thanks for the tips on controlling the Revo 16 in the surf. I just got one (2019 Revo) without trying it first. And from an out of state dealer too!
It was a leap of faith.
I have to say it’s tippy. And not as fast as I thought, but I didn’t have a FF to measure my speed so maybe I’m wrong. And I’m small and have very good balance, so I think it will be a learning experience. Like others noted, swell hitting from the back seem to sway it significantly and feels like it’s about to tip. I don’t know that bringing the rudder up while fishing is a good idea because then you can’t steer. The paddle can be used for steering though, and I found the Revo to be very responsive, but it’s hard to use when you have all that fishing gear in the way.

Thanks for the tips on controlling the Revo 16 in the surf. I just got one (2019 Revo) without trying it first. And from an out of state dealer too!
It was a leap of faith.
I have to say it’s tippy. And not as fast as I thought, but I didn’t have a FF to measure my speed so maybe I’m wrong. And I’m small and have very good balance, so I think it will be a learning experience. Like others noted, swell hitting from the back seem to sway it significantly and feels like it’s about to tip. I don’t know that bringing the rudder up while fishing is a good idea because then you can’t steer. The paddle can be used for steering though, and I found the Revo to be very responsive, but it’s hard to use when you have all that fishing gear in the way.

Use a dagger board and no need to upgrade the rudder, you will feel a difference (the "tippiness" will go away).  If you feel tippy on a wave, just stop pedaling and you will gain control immediately.  This is mostly due to the length of the kayak and the shape of the hull (longer area and sharper hull to be "slapped" around).  This is the hull feeling that you need to adjust to, but I decided to go the dagger board option, much easier for me.

The hull speed is definitely much faster since it slices water better.  You can go way faster in bad weather (I basically smoked everybody), even faster in flat weather. 
As far as flipping, it's a lot easier to flip back since it is narrower. 

BTW, I did sold my Revo 16 for a faster upgrade (though I somewhat regret it).




Space wise, one will typically manage, unless you're the type to bring a million rods and gazillion lures.

A really good thing to do to get over the 'tippiness' sensation is to go the 'full monty' -so to speak- and tip yourself into the drink. Do it a few times and learn the mechanics of falling into the water. Once you do this you'll find that it's actually harder than you thought to tip over and find that the rolling motion that felt tippy before is no longer a problem. If you really want to know how things work, load up the kayak with some of you gear -around the cockpit in particular- to see what happens when you fall into the water. Here are a few things I've learned over the years of making stupid mistakes (by the way this applies strictly to sit-on-top kayaks and my experience is strictly near-shore sea kayaking):
- Never panic. Absolutely never panic, no matter how big that wave is. Waves washing over your kayak almost never kill. Panic kills.
- If the kayak tips over it's most likely because you tried to hold on to it and took it with you as you rolled. If you are leaning too far to recover, just drop into the water. Recovery is much easier and quicker when your kayak does not end up upside down.
- Everything must be tied down, but you should absolutely never have a rope or tie line over your legs. Tie things behind you or on either side of the Kayak. Never tie anything between your legs, right?
- Keep the cockpit clear of things that can snag you as you fall in. Last thing you want happening is a leg getting caught in the kayak while your upper body in in the water. Very dangerous and very dangerous regardless if the kayak tips over or not. This is a panicky situation and this is why you should never have a tie line over your legs.
- If you are tipping over, toss away whatever you have in your hands, fishing rod, paddle, or anything else else you may be holding that can trap you. You tied everything down, remember? And you made sure all those tie lines were under you legs. Things like paddle will inevitably have the tie line over one of your legs so the paddle in particular you need to tie on the side of you dominant hand and toss the second you think you are about to tip over. Rods may be a similar situation.
- And did I mention don't panic?
- And never tie an anchor on the side of the kayak, not even for a minute. The only time I rolled my kayak over completely is the one time I had the brilliant idea of momentarily tying my anchor to the side of the kayak while I got my mask and snorkel on, on a calm day by the way with no wind. Not 30 seconds went by when a nice gentle no more than 2 ft swell rolled by, and drink it was for me and my kayak ended up upside down. But I didn't loose anything! I had everything tied down. And I didn't get snagged either. I had no tie lines over my legs! I didn't even loose my pride. I did it all for you guys, my future friends at NCKA!

As a spear fishermen over the years, I have been both appalled and saddened by the number preventable deaths that have occurred every year when people are out abalone diving in the Northern California coast. You just can't go out there to these dangerous seas unprepared. I have read that people are having accidents in kayaks too and some fatal. That's just not cool.

I'll be more than happy to help out anyone who'd like to try out some of the stuff I am talking about. I have not been methodical about any of this, it's just things I've learned over the years screwing up and so doing some practices would actually be good for me too. Very good.

...
- Everything must be tied down, but you should absolutely never have a rope or tie line over your legs. Tie things behind you or on either side of the Kayak. Never tie anything between your legs, right?
...

Lots of great advice, but there is much debate here over whether to tie things down or not. I leash lots of things, but there is a good argument to be made for attaching floats instead, as you are much less likely to get entangled when you tip over.

Interesting. I've never heard of that before.

Once I figured out how to tie stuff and keep it under my body in the kayak, I never had any problems. I think the key thing is that once you are tipping over, if you can't recover you balance, just drop in the water and leave the kayak stand. I would think it's just as easy to get tangled up with stuff floating around the kayak that stuff attached to the kayak. Like everything else, maybe the thing to do is to use floaters for some things, but for others tie them to the kayak, like your rod and you paddle.

I need to find those discussions.

If your still looking to test out an outback you are welcome to try mine out. I am actually going to be selling it relatively soon as well if your interested feel free to shoot me a message if you want to test it im located in vacaville. If your just wanting to test the self recovery my pool has plenty of room or we can go out to the sloughs near my place and you can get a feel for it.

Cool! Thanks! I am dying to get out, but I am so busy right now I don't have much time for anything. I'll let you know when I have time.

Thanks!
Rick