Same old story, the comparison continues.................

Heading out to demo the 2019 Outback, and PA 12 today🤔🤔🤔

Well, I had hoped doing back to back demos would have made my decision a bunch easier, but I’m still having difficulty. I know it’s asking too much to have your first kayak fulfill all your needs, but it’d be nice😊  I really like how stable the PA is, and the dry ride. The Outback feels stable, but being so low to the water, and the constant, CONSTANT!!!, water over the bow, can create a safety concern in the back of a newbies mind. Peddled into the wind with maybe 6-8” chop, and the spray was annoying.... 

Initially it was quite a chore to pedal the PA12, but it became a lot easier with the seat in a lower, somewhat reclined position. When I first set out it was set at full height. The Outback felt much more efficient to pedal overall.

I guess the sticking points currently are the weight of the PA, in general, and loading it on top of my little Jeep Renegade. For the Outback, it’d be the spray thing, and the vulnerability of the exposed rudder mostly.

To make matters worse, I hope to do everything with this kayak. I wanna fish lakes, bay, ocean, pull crab pots, and would really like to get into duck hunting...

To make matters worse, I hope to do everything with this kayak. I wanna fish lakes, bay, ocean, pull crab pots, and would really like to get into duck hunting...

I'm a Revo 16/AI owner, but it seems to me that the outback would clearly be the more versatile of the 2 that you are considering.

I have a 2017 Outback and love it. The problem with the PA is that they're incredibly heavy.....hauling one over the sand for a surf launch is kinda tough. Having to haul it back after a day fishing is even tougher lol. Actually, moving those battleships around at all is a chore, and they're kinda slow compared to smaller mirage drive kayaks. When you demo, definitely take the weight and bulk when moving it around into account.

I would be concerned with the weight of the PA every time you have to load it onto the top of your Jeep.  It seems like a lot of work and might deter your from using it as much as you would like.  The 2019 outback is a great looking yak and has soooo many options on it.  I really love how it’s laid out. My only experience with it was during a 1 hour demo in the sloughs of Redwood City with wind chop. As much as I wanted to place an order on it, the thing that i was concerned with was the water coming over the bow during normal peddling speeds. When I tried speeding up, water was constantly coming over the bow and this was just wind chop.  So as much as I wanted this 2019 outback, I had to walk away.  Believe me I really wanted to buy it. 
I ended up getting a 2018 outback instead. It was new and discounted for being a 2018 model. It does not have all the bling of the 2019 but I like it. I’m good at minimizing how much stuff I bring when fishing so it’s ok. Easy to fish from and I am not worried about water coming over the bow cause none has. The two kayak dealers around the Bay Area and Stockton Area still have the 2018 model at sale prices if you are interested.

Well, I had hoped doing back to back demos would have made my decision a bunch easier, but I’m still having difficulty. I know it’s asking too much to have your first kayak fulfill all your needs, but it’d be nice😊  I really like how stable the PA is, and the dry ride. The Outback feels stable, but being so low to the water, and the constant, CONSTANT!!!, water over the bow, can create a safety concern in the back of a newbies mind. Peddled into the wind with maybe 6-8” chop, and the spray was annoying.... 

Initially it was quite a chore to pedal the PA12, but it became a lot easier with the seat in a lower, somewhat reclined position. When I first set out it was set at full height. The Outback felt much more efficient to pedal overall.

I guess the sticking points currently are the weight of the PA, in general, and loading it on top of my little Jeep Renegade. For the Outback, it’d be the spray thing, and the vulnerability of the exposed rudder mostly.

outback low to the water. Try a Revo if you think the outback is low to the water.

My first kayak was an Outback but switched to an AI then now to a Revo13.  I like the Outback the most because of it’s portability, stability, and deckspace. You can store big fish/crabs in your footwell and still pedal.  The stability allows me to spend the whole day on the water and I can even take naps on it without worrying about anything.
In the surf, i’d rather land in an Outback because of it’s stability.

I hear you on the wind chop. I demo'd in Redwood City, and found the same thing. When I demo'd the 2019 outback a second time, this time in Oakland, the bow spray was way worse. The wind wasn't that strong, but the constant splash added up. I was pretty wet spending just a few minutes out in the main channel.

I was told that most likely an aftermarket entity will devise a remedy for this concern. BUT for $3000???

I hear you on the wind chop. I demo'd in Redwood City, and found the same thing. When I demo'd the 2019 outback a second time, this time in Oakland, the bow spray was way worse. The wind wasn't that strong, but the constant splash added up. I was pretty wet spending just a few minutes out in the main channel.

I was told that most likely an aftermarket entity will devise a remedy for this concern. BUT for $3000???

This is why the Revo 13 is my favorite fishing kayak.  I barely experience any of that.

I hear you on the wind chop. I demo'd in Redwood City, and found the same thing. When I demo'd the 2019 outback a second time, this time in Oakland, the bow spray was way worse. The wind wasn't that strong, but the constant splash added up. I was pretty wet spending just a few minutes out in the main channel.

I was told that most likely an aftermarket entity will devise a remedy for this concern. BUT for $3000???

This is why the Revo 13 is my favorite fishing kayak.

No wind chop spray with the Revo?

If you want minimum wind chop go with the Revo 16. The Revo 13 has slightly less.
Demo them all at CCK.

I was told that most likely an aftermarket entity will devise a remedy for this concern. BUT for $3000???

Ya.  I’m hoping that the next outback semi remodel would take care of this. Then I can upgrade.

for what it is worth,  I bought the 19 outback.  I had a similar experience demoing it. 

My first outing I took it out and flipped it over a few times to practice self rescue.  I have been out in it several times since.  The only time I ever actually got water inside the kayak was when I flipped it.  I flipped it a handful of times, and it got maybe a quart of water in it?  Maybe?

Also,  the fix for those that have the leak is just for people who purchased it before they knew this was an issue, or before they admitted it.  Now,  all the new units come with the second gasket already installed. 

The wind spray in the face was a bit annoying,  but I didnt mind water coming into the yak, as long as it went out quickly.  I got a soft fish cooler/bag that I put on the bow.  I get no spray from chop anymore.  The bag deflects it all.  At least in the conditions that I have been in so far.

My cousin has a few PA's.  That is what I thought I wanted when I started looking.  But after using the outback, I like it better for my use.  Mostly because it is lighter, but still feels super stable.  I really like the mirage drive which kept me focused on the hobie platform. 

Scruzfish, thanks a bunch for the reply. A fish bag is something that I had considered buying already, but didn’t even consider it as a spray deterrent. Simple solution👍🏼