property line dispute/legal issue

Sorry you gotta deal with that, just sucks having to go through that with neighbors.  I have a neighbor with this crazy vine type tree right at the fence line that absolutely smothers our fruit trees.  She used to trim it and keep it a reasonable height but for past several years, its been growing out of control.  I've asked her to trim it many times like she used to in the past but she just says yeah and never does it.

After doing research, I've discovered that trees in your neighbors yard that extends into your yard, its technically up to both of you to come to an agreement on trimming and maintenance.  And if a tree branch falls on your property, its your responsibility.  Sounds lame to me, especially if your neighbor refuses to trim or remove the tree.  Hope you get your problem resolved.

This true to a point if you send a certified letter to the property owner claiming dangger and fear of each specific tree the responsibility will fall back on property owner. I was got to experience this personally on 2 occasions. 

 
  After we had a Douglas fir fall on our house from across our creek on neighbors property, last may, our home owners insurance let us know that if any neighbor brings to our attention, any fears they may have of any trees from our property falling  and hitting their homes, we' d be responsible for the damages.  As it was, we had really tall fir, that was dead, (Bleached white and riddled with woodpecker holes) and one day a neighbor  across our creek, (In the trees reach should it go down) was waking his dog, approached me.  We chatted about the tree.  He told me he had had PG&E out to look at the tree, but took no action on it.
  A few months later the fir fell and hit us, then a month later we had $6500 worth of work done to remove, top, trim, thin and clear trees around my property
  Good luck with crazy lady.

The best advice I've seen here, is to do nothing at all - even with the wood pile - until the neighbor hires a surveyor to pin the property line.  Until that's done, they're just bluffing at this point in time. Their lawyer should have told them that.

The way this thread reads, anyone could say, "That hunk of land over there is mine, get off!" without showing proof.

Proof is required and you cannot be penalized until it is proven you're on someone else's property.

• Yep, there's a world of difference between what one believes and what one knows, and this boils down to the facts; the Law deals only with matters of fact.
• As already noted, it is to your advantage to KNOW the facts of the property line in advance of her telling you what her surveyor finds.  A survey will likely cost you at least $10,000 for a full survey, but you could just get the metes and bounds for the property line in question, which would be much faster and cheaper.  There are 3 possible outcomes of a survey:  A) The line does not move, B) the line moves in her favor, C) the line moves in your favor.  Mind you, the likely outcome of a property line change would be that one end point of the line would move and the other would stay put.
• Your title insurance likely has a statute of limitations, probably 10 years, and will only kick in if you can prove that there was an error committed, like an erroneous survey.
• You only have a real problem when there's a problem, like when her attorney actually provides you with survey supported proof that you are in error.  Otherwise, they can't do anything.
• Shame on you for putting your lumber on her property; you now are feeling her aggravation for that.  Move the wood ASAP, take a photo of the before and after situations, send those to her attorney, and then you might get some relief from her bile...for free.  Don't bring up the easement or adverse possession concepts, leave those to your attorney.
• If moving the lumber doesn't prevent her from pursuing legal action against you, then it will be time to hire a real estate attorney.
• I too am an architect, and my understanding is that the utility owns and is responsible for all components of the "grid" up to the point it physically connects to your property's point of termination (the meter), and the utility actually owns the meter (even though you actually paid for/provided their prescribed meter), which means that you are not legally allowed to even touch/tamper with the meter -- you are only allowed to touch the lugs and wires that emerge from the homeowner side of the meter.  Furthermore, all property owners have granted the utilities implied or actual easements as soon as they allow the utilities appurtenances to enter or cross over their property; which means that for those of us who have underground power connections (a good thing) the utility's easement includes ripping up (and patching) the yard in order to service the buried cables.

Conclusion:  Move the damn wood and sit tight.  For the PG&E matter, call your county supervisor's office (City if you're in an incorporated area) for assistance.

Actually, I'd originally thought the wood was on the next lot over (a laid-back neighbor), but it's close enough that I could be wrong. And, I'm sure the underlying source of her bile is that she's been trying to sell the lot across the street. She's asking about 10x it's actual value, since it's nearly vertical and unbuildable. The funny thing is that whenever somebody stops to look at it, I tell them only positive things about what a great neighborhood we have, etc., just hoping that somebody (anybody!) else will buy it.

In any case, this sounds like a plan. We'll get the wood pile cleaned up soon and then see what happens from there.

If you decide to move the woods, be sure to take pics and document it.  Let the lawyer you did that on good faith (even if you think it doesn't matter).  Same thing, use registered mail.  If it comes down to a face off in court, most judge will likely rule in the favor of non hostile party that showed good will, especially if the case can go either way.  You don't want your good will attempt to be seen as an omission of guilt.

I know that something can be handled as simple as possible and we shouldn't be a litigious society, especially for small matter.  That letter from the lawyer could simply be an outcome from a favor of a friend.  However, if there is a serious intent behind it, be sure to cover yourself.  I am a strong believer that anybody can be both civil and protective of oneself at the same time.

most judge will likely rule in the favor of non hostile party that showed good will, especially if the case can go either way. 

No. first of all in a property line dispute there's no "it can go either way."  Second, in close cases most judges will rule in favor of the party that will not get them reversed on appeal.

Get a lawyer and a survey, in that order, and see if there is any insurance coverage under any applicable policies to cover the fees and costs.  This is not something you can ignore, and u cannot handle it urself. Period.

It sounds like it's not too late to respond in a friendly neighborly manner. You could speak to her if she's around or send a letter to her lawyer. Ask why she thinks your stuff is on her property. If you're going to move it you want to be sure of where she thinks the property line is. Is she just operating on assumption on where the line is? Does she think your stuff is an eyesore hurting her ability to sell her property? She may have no clue where the line is and may simply be bluffing you so she won't have to pay for a survey. It may be possible to find a written description of the property lines. If you can find a starting point you may be able to do a rough survey using a hand held GPS, or if the topography allows, a measuring tape. The lawyers response or lack of response may help you decide if she is bluffing or has reasonable cause to believe your stuff is on her property. I don't see how it could hurt your cause to ask what she's basing her claim on and exactly why and where does she believe the property line is. If you're friendly and they don't respond, they are probably bluffing.

Get a lawyer and a survey, in that order ...

I plan to talk to a lawyer, but it makes no sense to me that it would be my responsibility to pay for a survey in this situation.

  Good luck with crazy lady.

In this neighborhood, if you mention the "crazy lady", everybody knows who you are talking about---and she hasn't even lived here during the past 10 years...

Get a lawyer and a survey, in that order ...

I plan to talk to a lawyer...

You just did.  He's right.  You always negotiate from a position of strength and knowledge if at all possible.  Lawyer and survey, call tomorrow.

I do not agree with the lawyer or survey at this time.  At this time, you hold the upper hand, having established your possessions on the land that she disputes.  She's made a claim that it's on her property.  Make HER prove it.  Make HER open her wallet.  My bet is that she won't, and the longer you occupy the land, the stronger your case is if, and when, she ever decides to proceed through a legal channel. 

I would not make any contact with her.  I'd ignore her.  Don't move a thing.  Your rights are with the hostile and open actions she's taken exception to.  The problem is hers and she's stated so.  You don't have a problem, she does.  You should wait until she takes the first legal steps. 

It's my experience that she's not going to be reasonable in any sort of capacity.  She won't be compromising, she won't be negotiable. Most likely she will be confrontational.  It will be her way or the highway.  So, ignore her for as long as you can.

My opinion, based on my experience dealing with the same thing; my personal property on the neighbor's side of the property line.  My neighbor even paid for a survey AND she and her husband are lawyers to boot.  And yet, they have not taken any action to reclaim their strip of land at the property line.  Most likely because they KNOW that I will get a judgement that will seal my right to easement. 

Most likely she will be confrontational.  It will be her way or the highway.

Yes, that's exactly the way that she is about everything. The neighbors have lots of stories, and when we bought our house from her, we never dealt with her real estate agent---always, it was her, so we got a taste of it.

One funny thing is that she made a big production of a huge map (like 3' x 5') that she had gotten from the county that was stamped with "permitted for sale". We got that when we moved in, and that's what I followed when placing the propane tank, thinking that should keep her happy. But, no such luck.

You just did.  He's right.  You always negotiate from a position of strength and knowledge if at all possible.  Lawyer and survey, call tomorrow.

I don't mean to question :::'s recommendation, it's just that the lawyer comes first and then I'll take it from there.

So a lawyer recommend getting a lawyer....not surprising is it?

I certainly think that the bottom line lies with legality, which means lawyers involvement.  However, I like Jerry's opinion at this time.  The upper hand is yours at the moment.  I think finding out her intent via simple communication can go a long way.  At this point, I think it's helpful to find out a little if it's a bluff or not, with the caution that the intent is real if in doubt. 

People do this kind of things all the time when they revisit their assets, especially somebody that has a team of wealth management folks.  The lawyer could be retained on a monthly basis, sending a letter to you may not cost her a penny.  However, going further will (i.e. survey).

No disrespect to others and this is my final comment on this topic.  Again, thanks to everybody for the education.  Good luck, Mark!  You can probably gauge the seriousness of this intent based on others' past stories around the neighborhood.

So a lawyer recommend getting a lawyer....not surprising is it?

Not much different than a firearms dealer trying to sell you a gun when you are about to get into a gunfight.