Tranducer mounts "stupid" kayak makers

OK replies well taken but hey this is not Michael Jordan shoe were trying to shove in there. I just feel if they were actually using these kayaks themselves and mounting FF and transducers to there own personnel fishing kayaks we would get better designs. Another words live the life of a fishing kayak-er and you get better ideas than you do sitting at a desk designing. Every kayak-er I have talked to of coarse has his own ideas but they all would like a better way to mount the transducer than glue it to the inside of the kayak. This problem has been ongoing for years this just did not start with larger transducers last year. Another round Joe....LOL

I'm thinking of going with a deployable arm for my FF, that way I can use on whatever yak I'm using. Did water bath since 2008, but want to see what transducer in h20 looks like.

It seems to me with computers getting smaller that these "stupid" FF companies would make TD's smaller, not bigger. They should stop making anything new till they can get their S&^% together.

I don't know about you but bigger ain't bad on the display. My eyesight isn't improving every year...[emoji12]

It seems to me with computers getting smaller that these "stupid" FF companies would make TD's smaller, not bigger. They should stop making anything new till they can get their S&^% together.

 My eyesight isn't improving every year...[emoji12]

obviously since Rob was talking about transducers, not displays

It seems to me with computers getting smaller that these "stupid" FF companies would make TD's smaller, not bigger. They should stop making anything new till they can get their S&^% together.

 My eyesight isn't improving every year...[emoji12]

obviously since Rob was talking about transducers, not displays

See! I can barely read these posts!
Need a bigger screen.
Or font..[emoji15]

OK so here is my $10.00 answer got the bar from Home Cheapo had to hammer it to mold around the kayak I was going to mount the bar to the side of the kayak but not going to do that right now. My other kayak I mounted the top bar right to the kayak and its works great but this transducer is so big that transporting the kayak I want to be able to remove the whole thing.

When the Trident series came out most of the smaller Humminbird units fit the sonar shield perfectly. The 300 and 500 series stuff was great. When they designed the Ultra 4.7 and 4.3 the scupper transduce was designed to fit Humminbird and Lowrance.  I use a 688 HD combo now and the lid goes down but not quite al the way. Big Deal it fits good enough.  They are not going to change the way the deck is designed every time there's an upgrade form the FF/GPS folks. That's stupid to even think they would. Now the Helix comes out and it wont fit at all in the sonar shield. So look to see the sonar shield disappear this year altogether. The scupper transducer will be changed too. To a center position. There's nothing wrong with the inside mounting. It actually keeps everything pretty GD tidy. Then people complained the transducer scupper wont drain properly with the transducer in it. OMG what the hell? My life is ruined.    That arm thingy looks like it might work but I would rather have it inside than have all that garbage in the way when Im paddling and fishing.  Another option is to install a small hatch in the rear and mount the transducer at the stern and run the wire through the hull to the front. It aint rocket science. Peace and love!!! 

Thanks Rob!!! Thanks Big Jim!!

It is naive to think that you would design forward enough to accommodate half a dozen or more vendors who have their own proprietary road maps replete with a zillion changing conditions. Even in the world of code that doesn't happen often. It is just too darn hard to coordinate. You make a guess and go. Sometimes you win, sometimes not.

It is not naive to think that a provider partnering with a vendor to provide unique capabilities (e.g.; transducer scupper that only fits lowrance) would be a good business model.  That happens all the time. It does baffle me that we don't see more packages though- I'd bet the engineers thought it'd be the case, and then the operations, tax, rev rec and legal folks got involved and it all got way to f'in complicated.

Maybe, just maybe,the solution is that we all dump the electronics and do what we did years ago, simply fish. I think there's a tournament going by that name. I have all the modern shit, FF,GPS, wires running through holes here and there from battery to devises but I'm getting weary of dealing with accessories and the complexities they cause. This season I plan to do at least a few trips without and see how it goes.

Easy folks. Even the old fish finders work well It's not necessary to upgrade constantly (Fun though) I have found that threw hull is virtually the same.... I like the bigger screens so I did go to a 5 series. Always hurdles in any endeavor. Use it as a challenge to your creativity and ability to adapt. Have fun! If it ain't fun, Stop it! and just play. Electronics are just one more tool. Like a paddle, a pole, a lure 1 or 50 of them +++ Don't keep up with the Jones. Do your thing and play with your junk till you get happy with the toy. Stop if it's not all that. Have Craig (or any of the other guys) show you where he/they fish. Most of us love to see others get the same thrill we do hooking up and enjoying the sport

They could easily design a spot under the kayak that would fit all transducers if there is a scupper hole above the transducer spot I and others will find a way to mount it. Your right "it ain't rocket science" here were just mounting a transducer.
I don't think were asking too much especially when some of these kayaks cost thousands of dollars and "we" have to retro around there... oh!  we just use Hummingbird echo 175c for a transducer so that's your issue not ours.
Kayak fishermen are mounting all kinds of FF on there kayaks it just needs to be addressed. They are putting a spot there anyway why not make it big enough to handle other brands.
Makers of FF to have got to look and say a lot of our customers are kayak-ers not just boaters so they too have to keep it in check. If I was Lowrance,Garmin and others I would be very involved in how kayak fishermen mounted there transducers but that's just me.
anyway glad I got that off my chest....another round Joe.

I'm glad to see this topic is getting some attention from all perspectives.  I can't wait to chime in a bit further.  Soon.

It just not possible for all manufacturers to work with all other manufacturers.  But some do make alliances with others to make a product work well with their own, nothing wrong with that.  Then there are some that are combined already, like Johnson Outdoors = Ocean Kayak and Hummingbird Fish finders.  Even then, they cant always design a one size fits all solution, because the technology keeps changing.  I like the Hobie version of the transducer mount, which seems to accommodate a wide variety of products.  But even then, I still use the water bath method with duct seal   

Ok ... finally at a computer with a keyboard & not texting from a phone...

   As I stated ... I am glad to see this very topic get some attention & it has arose before if memory serves me right but we have some new members so we'll discuss this again.

   I see this topic addressing a few basic issues:

#1  Transducers/Units/Brands
#2  Kayaks/Adaptability/Brands
#3  Need vs Desire of Electronics on a Kayak

   #3  Need vs Desire can be looked at from various perspectives.  Does one "need" a unit to catch fish?  Heck no!  Some of our more repetitively productive anglers do it with no unit or older model units.  A fishfinder CAN give you an advantage when it comes to locating bait, structure or schools of fish - FACT.  It is not a replacement for general knowledge of the surroundings, however.  Understanding the species, their food source, tides/currents, barometric/weather, locations/drops/channels, seasons & bird activity are also very helpful tools for targeting fish.  All of these aspects, just like a fishfinder, are TOOLS in ones tacklebox when they hit the water.  I would never want, myself, to ever rely on just one of the many tools available to understanding "how to target fish".

   #3a   GPS - Not all fishfinder units incorporate a GPS; many do these days.  Are all GPS units equal?  NO!  I'll go into more on this in just a bit.  GPS is another TOOL to helping you locate, mark and return to fish or fish holding structure.  They are also a very valuable safety device.  Knowing where you are, where you have been will aide you in a safe return trip after trip.  They offer a multitude of other benefits such as mapping, MLPA zones, marking you favorite fishing spot, shipping lanes, tides/currents, etc...  Those are all tools in your fishing toolbox.  One should NEVER rely on any one tool.  You should know & understand your surroundings and be prepared for a shift in weather; fog, wind, waves, tides, currents & boat traffic to name a few.  These units are electronic and we have to understand that electronics can and will fail so be prepared

   #2  Kayaks - There is, I feel, a slight disconnect between the kayak builders and the electronics manufacturers.  Is there someone to blame for this; NOPE.  Molds are expensive - FACT.  These manufacturers have to sell a specific number of kayaks for a given mold to recover their design, engineering, manufacturing and general production costs.  If they updated and/or changed molds more frequently, what is the effect to the consumer?  MUCH higher kayak costs.  Would you want to pay 2, 3 or maybe 5x the cost for the same kayak?  I doubt it.  Remember, its a numbers game & these manufacturers deserve to make their profits of they are out of business.  Economy 101.

   The question/comment came about earlier pertaining to Ocean Kayak & their specific unit/transducer combo.  As others have stated; Ocean & H-Bird are all one parent company so the kayak was made "unit specific".  Note that even their newest head units don't fit their older kayaks.  I believe even their thru hull transducer was semi-short lived - no?  Short in the grand scheme of a few years.  I may be wrong on this ... I haven't kept up too much on the history of that unit.  Lowrance followed behind by forming partnerships with Hobie & Wilderness Systems to develop "transducer ready" setups.  I'm very pleased to have the ability to provide market feedback to both Lowrance and W.S. kayaks and have been doing so for the past several years.  All the  feedback I gain through the site, both good and bad, is filtered back to Lowrance in an effort to make them better aware of the grass roots kayak fishing market.  As an engineer, I can tell you it is NOT simple to make design changes to a kayak/mold nor is it simple to just "make a universal transducer space" on the bottom of the kayak.  Its a matter of give & take and to do this, something has to give somewhere in the design not to mention the structural integrity.  The fishfinder manufacturers ARE in communication with the kayak manufacturers as designs, market demands and such change BUT keep in mind that they aren't necessarily on the same production schedule.  Electronics market for all these brands have a two-year rotation life to them.  Imagine if we were dealt a cell phone or computer style of industry where they are obsolete a few months after purchase.  This isn't the marine electronics format, luckily.

   #1  Transducers/Units/Brands  I spoke earlier on the alignment of brands between kayak & FF manufacturers.  One small tidbit to keep in mind - the sales of marine electronics to kayakers is a drop in the pond.  Does that mean kayaks deserve any less market respect?  Nope.  The kayak market is among the highest recognized target audiences among the various marine electronics manufacturers.  Keep in mind that the concept of kayak fishing as a sport is in its infancy.  I believe whole heartedly in that personal statement.  Just a few years ago, we had VERY few models of kayaks with specific features for fishing/electronics.  Electronics have also evolved very rapidly over the past few years.  A 5-year shelf life of a marine electronic unit wasn't all that unheard of just a few years back.  The market is asking for something new.  Lowrance was founded back in the 1950's built on a premise/motto "promise of something new".  As a consumer, I want to see innovation.  It adds to the toolbox of finding fish, structure and enhancing a safe, enjoyable day on the water.  I've seen a few marine electronics companies be dissolved because they didn't move with the market or made bad market choices.

   Back on topic - The head units change based on market needs, desires.  Just a few years ago, the "norm" for a kayaker was a 4" screen & a 5" was a major luxury.  As prices dropped, 5" is more the "norm" now with an increase in 7" models finding their way into our niche part of the market.  Again, keep in mind that kayakers are a huge minority if you look at global sales.  These companies produce for the global market - not just Nor-Cal.  Just as our way of rigging a kayak here in Nor-Car differers from So-Cal, Texas or East Coast.  It would be short sighted of us to ask that a mainstream kayak manufacturer develop a kayak specific to our local needs.  The closes we have to this is Jim & Santa Cruz Kayaks and he has done a WONDERFUL job of this ... super envious!  Head units change size as features, computing power, etc are added.  Miniaturizing specific components is a money game.  It can be done but are you as a consumer willing to pay the price?  We WILL, I believe, see units become thinner.  Take for example TV's.  Now long did it take for us to jump from tube technology to Plasma to LED & what's next?  Far larger market but you get the general analogy.  Again, the marine electronics market is making an effort to keep up with market demands, technological developments, etc.

   Transducers a bit ...  Not too many years ago, they were larger & progressively got smaller with the last dual-frequency size being around 1" wide x ~2" long.  Then came along the 4-frequency, DownScan, StructureScan, TotalScan & now 3D.  Boom!  Transducers got large again.  Why?  They are now housing far greater numbers of 'crystals' in the epoxy transducer housings to keep up with market demands for  higher definition, deeper water, better target separation, wider views, all-in-one transducers and the latest ... 3D fishfinding.  To make these nearly 180° sweeps it requires a crystal array that takes up nearly 10" of length.  Can this be improved ... yes, over time.  Why do the kayaks not fit these transducers?  Again, its a matter of timing between the engineering teams at the kayak company & the fishfinder companies.  Neither company can divulge what they are working on for fear of it leaking to a competitor.  Apple employees aren't allowed to wander about their own building to other departments for this very reason.  Some of the newest transducer technology to be found on the market didn't arrive overnight.  These have been in the lab, engineering, testing, etc for years.  There has been many designs that got dumped before we as a consumer ever got hint of them.  The latest Lowrance transducer design wasn't even nailed down as far as dimensions are concerned until a few months before it was released as 'new' to the public eye.  Based on that, the best they could offer to a kayak manufacturer is to give it about x, y, z amount of space.  Factor in all the transducer shapes, sizes, powers, etc. that are on the market through the largest builder of transducers, Airmar, and there is little to no way a kayak manufacturer can accommodate for the variables in a production-ready kayak at fair market value.

   The end result of all this is a balancing act that will come about but may take a period of time where kayak manufacturers, marine electronics makers and consumer needs/demands find a harmony such that things start to become in balance.  Till then, you as the consumer have choices to make in what the market has to offer, add a personal touch and remember that this is a sport and these are all tools used to enhance your fishing experience and safe time on the water.

   I'm not speaking on behalf of any manufacturer.  Just adding my personal views & they weigh in no differently than your own.

Topic I didn't discuss is the ability to use aftermarket manufacturers such as yakattack to make adaptable solutions that fits virtually all kayaks