Humbled by god's creation," Bean Hallow" 10/20/06

5 cubic feet sounds good'n'floaty!

Frankfishing,

Tell me you did not stop at Ranch 99 on the way home!!!

I think I might do that instead next time.  I reckon those stripers from Mendo are costing me at least $100/lb when I add everything up!

Doug

Doug,
 We know about denial and how capable a tool it is . Besides if we started keeping track of this stuff (expense) we would all be diagnosed with a serious case of crazzzy.
Frank

Marmite,

If you ever get into "Long Range " tuna fishing it will cost you about $1000 per fish.  Unless, you go all the time.

Ken kickfish

Your right...this is a bargain!  Besides my wife is so glad I returned to my great passion for fishing which I had given up for almost 25 years.  She thinks it gets my head out of the stress of work and she says I smile a lot more again.  It's a lot cheaper than having to see a shrink!

.....and WAAAAAAAAY cheaper than fishng from a PB!!!

This incident discussed on another board:

http://topkayaker.net/cgi-bin/TopYakcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000200;p=1

Particularly taken with idea always use floatation bags plus this from Prowler Les on the TopKayaker site:

“What is needed is some kind of screw hatch slightly larger than the diameter of the bilge pump with a rubber seal that the pump is pushed through so that the rubbers seals around the outside of the pump. This way the water can be pumped out without more water getting in.”


FYI: I believe this is the kayak:  http://www.hobiecat.com/fishing/models_outfitterfisherman.html

Hobie may not want to do a mandatory recall because of the expense and PR:  Hence only the dealers have been informed.

Hi guys,

I was directed here from the Kayak Fishing Stuff forums. While it appears that the problem with the Outfitter in this thread is not likely the same issue... I wanted to clarify the actual situation that some of the information posted here is related to.

There is no consistent drive well "leak issue" related to Outfitter models that we are aware of. Actually, we have had very few reports of problems related to leaks in the MirageDrive well in models other than Outback and Adventure. The structure of the Outfitter is different. The problem we see is related to the MirageDrive being forced forward out of position and contacting the forward area of the well in an in-appropriate way.  If the drive is forced forward it can contact the front of the well and (in the Older Outbacks and Adventure models) could poke a hole in the forward lip if that material is thinner or more brittle than expected. The Drive might slip forward if the knobs are not properly tensioned or larger than anticipated pedaling loads are used. The problem we are seeing is in a small percentage of our production and are most common in a couple of highly pigmented plastic color models. In no way are all models of Mirage kayaks involved and in no way is all of any production run of a model suspect. The problem is sporadic.

Outback and early Adventure models are more susceptible to damage related to the length of the bolts used to lock in the drive. A change in the bottom shape to the Outback in July 2003 appears to have been the start of the problem on that model. The Adventure has a similar dimension below the MirageDrive. With shorter bolts in those two models, the locking knobs can flex under higher loads and the drive may slip out of place. These two models also have a different shape and dimension within the hull. This can affect the amount of plastic forming under the area that the well is loaded if the drive does slip. One additional issue is the indentation that the drive rests into. This is shallower on these models.

In production we had corrected the issues in several ways.
- We have added longer cam lock-knob bolts which prevent the knobs from flexing out of position under heavy pedaling loads.
- We have added small brass inserts under the forward well lip to induce more plastic flow and create a solid shoulder.
- We have deepened the indentions that the drive rest into.
- We have reformulated the plastics.
- We have invested in thermal imaging equipment to better judge heat displacement during molding.
- We have made tighter inspection requirements after molding.

There is a retrofit program going for Hobie Outback and Adventure models built before July 2006. Letters were sent to all dealers and registered owners. We have information posted in our forums and have created a FAQ post as well. We are supplying free kits to correct the problem.

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=5469

Sorry... had not yet added a personal profile with signature for the last post.

Matt Miller
Hobie Cat USA

I have an Adventure. Received the fix kit direct from Hobie.

Matt omitted an additional item furnished by Hobie.

The two year warranty coverage for Outbacks and Adventures is extend to four years with 100% coverage for damage to the wells on Kayaks in the specified range. After four years there will be pro rated coverage on those hulls for an additional two years.

The letter I received from President Doug Skidmore  lists the Outback Hulls as A3753 through F2853. The Adventure's as serial numbers D00001 through D1875.

Hard to tell why the Outfitter flooded. Could have been anything. But

..... if you read Frank's post carefully there is a lot of mia culpa there which he freely admits.

His last trip the leak was so bad hit it had to be pumped out to land. And then knowing that and replacement hull is on the way, he launches in the conditions described? How bad did he describe that leak so the dealer said go ahead and use it until the replacement hull arrived? etc.

Hobie may not want to do a mandatory recall because of the expense and PR:  Hence only the dealers have been informed.

There is a retrofit program going for Hobie Outback and Adventure models built before July 2006. Letters were sent to all dealers and registered owners.




Dear Matt,
I thank you for posting your information on NCKA and want to also thank you for your candor about the Outfitter , Adventure related issue with leakage. However, I have a letter addressed to dealers dated August 31,2006 which introduces the fact that " Mirage Well Leaks" and that this has been a problem that Hobie has known about for two years according to this letter. Furthermore it continues to allude to the fact that not only is their a problem with this drive system but continues to report they have been primarily reported about the Outback and Adventure.Primarily leaves one to believe that other models have also been reported? Then this letter goes on to say that leakage into the boat can sometimes be difficult to locate. Boy don't I know that for a fact(being adrift at sea) having filled the boat with water at the dealers suggestion with no leaks found then had the dealer do the same again with the same results.
This letter is signed by your company president, Doug Skidmore who I have not had the pleasure of meeting. I personally have contacted Hobie with this problem and the remade was the same as you posted. I however was never contacted about this leak by you or Hobie and take a little offense to the fact that registered owners were contacted by letter which I am.
 
I received my Outfitter as a Father's Day present from my family. Not only did I put myself a risk but my wife, daughter's and friends. If I had known about this leak problem I would have never put myself or others at risk. The dealership was told about my Hobie of fishing and directed us to the Outfitter as a practical way to have the whole family enjoy both kayaking and fishing. During this time it was also mentioned that I wanted to try ocean fishing and boy no one said well Frank that isn't a good idea in this Kayak.

Again Matt I appreciate your writing this to everyone but why wasn't I given the same courtesy as a user. Now for the letter in my possession I have never posted it but I think that in all fairness I should so everyone can see and then make their own decision about your product and your post. Or is someone from your organization going to cantact me with the same sincerity that you have shown the entire NCKA. After all we were the ones that spent the money.

I think I'll end there for some reason I am starting to fill a bit irate, Matt I will give you and your organization my Phone number via our inter organization private post.

Sincerely written Frank Sacramento (frankfishing)

Frank,

We are certainly very sorry for the problems you encountered.

The reason you did not get a letter from us would be that the Outfitter you owned was not one of the models in question. From your post I understand that we replaced the hull. I spoke with the dealer and they informed me that a crack was indeed found in the forward drive well. I believe that the issue was primarily a brittle molded plastic. The issue there is unrelated to the recall in that the primary problem and solution offered for the actual models affected by the retrofit is longer bolts for the knobs. The Outfitter would not benefit from that and the area damaged is already solid plastic. This is just heavy stress on a brittle plastic.

By the way... for others reading these posts...for leak testing, I would highly recommend a simple (low) air pressure and soapy water method. Find a complete description here: http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=1949

This is the first I have heard that a leak was found? So why didn't the dealer inform me of his findings?

I believe he was referencing an employees reference to it. He was a bit unclear of the findings. Seeing that the leak became more pronounced during the rough ocean run, it is certainly possible that something opened up more and finally became detectable.

By the way... for others reading these posts...for leak testing,

Leak testing ? Shouldn't the kayak manufacturer be "leak testing" before selling it to the public.  If I'm paying over a grand for a kayak, I sure hope it does not leak