Another kayak Marlin

Nice catch and all in a macho bravado egotistical way but  I think PolePole is right on. All this below is not necessarily applying to this incident in particualr, but meant as food for thought. Our oceans area precious resrouces and endangered ones. We shouldbe very thoughtful when we use them and particularly when we take from them. Sure there is a balance but tha key word there is balance.

Maybe there are fish we shouldn't target in a kayak if we cannot do it responsibly--i.e. true unharmed catch and release. The morbidity of released fish is high enough--and great if they are not fully revived as this one appeared not to be. Marlin (and other big Pelagic) populations have been decimated worldwide. And tiring one to near death just for a kayak glory shot would not be good sportsmaship nor in the spirit of sustainable fishing IMHO. We should ask ourselves if we are fishing for enjoyment while considering preservation or for ego to impress others wthout regard for the fish?

Selfish disregard for fish will likely eventually get kayak fishing banned for some species--and if only ego and not the fish matters most when targeting Marlin in a kayak--then I'd support the ban.

This reasoning also precludes using light line from a boat.

Basically this reasoning says that the only "good" way to target marlin is to not target them at all, or fish with super heavy line and horse them in.

I've seen more people on this site abusing LMB with improper lipping technique than people abusing marlin.

Food for thought.

MolBasser

What is "proper lipping technique" for suitably sized fish............not the Marlin, he's been beat up enough?........

OK here goes, While I certainly respect your concern for the fishery, I do feel the same about taking care of the fish. I guess I must tell you that you are actually a bit off. Of course holding the fish out of the water is depriving them of O2, people do that with their precious trout. Marlin are strong and muscular animals that regularly free jump high out of the water and crash back onto its surface, they are built to withstand this punishment and pressure. This is free jumping not when hooked. So a couple of minutes out of the water is really not an issue, other than again lack of O2. The issue you speak of pertains to mammals, whales and such. They are much bigger and the weight is pushing down on their lungs.
As far as the length of the fight, there is a balance that we have to try to meet for our own safety and that of the fish. As you know fighting a fish from a kayak is much different than a boat, we are really just holding on for the ride. not a lot of pressure is really placed on the fish. A twenty minute fight against a boat is like a two hour fight against a kayak. We once had a Marlin tow four kayakers and a diver like we were not even there.
Most of the fish still have plenty of fire left in them once we release them.
Generally speaking I toss a tow rope to the support boat while I hold the bill and give the fish a tow, until it swims away strong. This fish was still bucking when I put it in the water, so I didn't do it this time. It started to swim slowly away, after the cut I paddled toward the fish and it took off like a shot.
Yes we are going for the Glory shot when we pull them aboard for a the photo, but that is a lot better than pulling them aboard to kill. We take as good of care of them as possible without putting ourselves in to much jeopardy. You can see what happens when we try to land them too early in this video and the video from last October.
http://one.revver.com/find/video/sammons#_show_video_7136
I do believe in CnR and personally rarely keep any fish. It is legal to kill these fish if we want and if you want to get into it then we are harming any fish that we hook, should we ban fishing all together? I wouldn't be in a big hurry to ban any type of fishing from a kayak, you just may find your favorite fish banned.
Thanks for your concern.

What is "proper lipping technique" for suitably sized fish............not the Marlin, he's been beat up enough?........

Too many people hold a bass horizontally using the lipping technique.  This puts an incredible torque force on the jaws of the fish, and can often result in severe damage to the jaw.

The proper technique is to hold the bass vertically.

I agree with Jim that the organ damage argument is probably not that relavent in the marlin discussion.




This is abusive lipping (from another site).





This is propper lipping.


MolBasser

This reasoning also precludes using light line from a boat.

Basically this reasoning says that the only "good" way to target marlin is to not target them at all, or fish with super heavy line and horse them in.

Nope.  I would expect a striped marlin of that size to be able to be brought in in under 20 minutes on 30# tackle when fishing from a PB.  However a boat has certain advantages.  It can chase a fish down.  In marlin fishing, the boat handling is every bit as important, if not moreso, than the person cranking the reel.  The other advantage is that I believe you can get a lot more leverage.  I've had large fish hooked up on the yak that made me feel I wasn't getting the leverage out of a 30# outfit that I would normally get on a PB ... because the yak is getting pulled on a sleight ride and you just don't have a good position to get good leverage.

There has got to be a way to reduce the fight time from a kayak.  Perhaps use a buddy yak to tow you around, and if you plan on releasing it, use the support panga to wire and release the fish.  It is much more safe for them to handle a fish that's not completely played out, than it is for anyone on a kayak.  I've had more than 1 marlin hit the boat hard when on the wire ... hard enough that it would have seriously injured a person on a kayak.  Or the other option is keep the fish and not let it go to waste.

Sorry about my rants ... I cannot address Mol's food for thought, but a marlin has a special place in my heart, more than LMB for sure (I've caught more marlin than LMB's!!!).

-Allen

A lot more LMB (by many orders of magnitude) than Marlin and they reproduce faster and grow to length faster than the large Pelagics. What part of "The large Pelagics including Marlin are decimated" is so hard to grasp .IF LMB were decimated we'd have Bass Pros and tackle companies mobilizing to save them.

And  debate via  reductio adabsurdum, "Basically this reasoning says that the only "good" way to target marlin is to not target them at all," is not  logical nor helpful. It emotionlizes this issue and deosn't seek a solution but takes and "all-or-nothing" attitude that gets us bans as a result. DFG limits methods of take on many species to lower mobidity by reducing catch frequency even for C&R. So its a valid concept and I think should be applied judiciously to the bigger game Pelagics if abuse continues just for ego and profit. I hate to think I am siding with extremists on this one and I am not. I am asking for restraint because I am not sure I see any and I fear we'll pay for it later.

Believe me I appreciate your concern and have heard all arguments before. If we were to use a boat to land the fish, we would hear from the other side that "this was not a kayak caught fish" "it was not pure" blah blah blah.... This becomes a no win argument.
All I can say is We have released all but one of the Marlin we have caught, and that was as a favor to my pangero, and all swam away strong.
To all the critics I am sorry, for those that want to try it, give me a call.

Any one that knows me knows my stance on care of Calico Bass, so don't get me started on that one

Thanks Mol,

SM, it looks to me like this very discussion and exploration shows "restraint".  And though I recognize the next statement as circular reasoning..........if they can find so many to catch, are they "decimated" in this sport fishing area?  I don't know, just a thought.

OK here goes, While I certainly respect your concern for the fishery, I do feel the same about taking care of the fish. I guess I must tell you that you are actually a bit off. Of course holding the fish out of the water is depriving them of O2, people do that with their precious trout. Marlin are strong and muscular animals that regularly free jump high out of the water and crash back onto its surface, they are built to withstand this punishment and pressure. This is free jumping not when hooked. So a couple of minutes out of the water is really not an issue, other than again lack of O2. The issue you speak of pertains to mammals, whales and such. They are much bigger and the weight is pushing down on their lungs.

Whales and such routine free jump as well and are not harmed by that activity.

Jim, I know you have nothing but the best intentions.  Thanks for not taking any of this the wrong way.  These sorts of "delicate" subjects tend to go south sometimes.

So ... do you have next years trip dates set yet?   

-Allen

A lot more LMB (by many orders of magnitude) than Marlin and they reproduce faster and grow to length faster than the large Pelagics. What part of "The large Pelagics including Marlin are decimated" is so hard to grasp .IF LMB were decimated we'd have Bass Pros and tackle companies mobilizing to save them.

 

It isn't hard to grasp, nor have I failed to grasp it.  I was pointing out that people have selective morality at times in regards to caring for fish that are to be released.  Just because bass are plentiful is no reason to abuse them.

And  debate via  reductio adabsurdum, "Basically this reasoning says that the only "good" way to target marlin is to not target them at all," is not  logical nor helpful. It emotionlizes this issue and deosn't seek a solution but takes and "all-or-nothing" attitude that gets us bans as a result.

Precisely my point!  I was pointing out that the road that is introduced with Polepole's first post is a road to closure by the very reason you bring up.  

DFG limits methods of take on many species to lower mobidity by reducing catch frequency even for C&R. So its a valid concept and I think should be applied judiciously to the bigger game Pelagics if abuse continues just for ego and profit. I hate to think I am siding with extremists on this one and I am not. I am asking for restraint because I am not sure I see any and I fear we'll pay for it later.

One must be careful how one goes about this however, which was why I wrote what I wrote.  The slope can get quite slippery....

MolBasser

So ... do you have next years trip dates set yet?   

-Allen

I love a good debate and take something from every opinion.

If I stop replying to posts I will have the dates for next year set by the end of the week.

So ... do you have next years trip dates set yet?   

-Allen

I love a good debate and take something from every opinion.

If I stop replying to posts I will have the dates for next year set by the end of the week.

Its all good.  We are all reasonable people here and can discuss stuff without getting pissy.

As I always tell everyone I meet.  I have never met a kayak angler that I didn't like or that I felt was a jerk in any way.

MolBasser

Jim,
No worries, do not mistake my questioning out loud for the sake of debate and to bring issues about endangered species to the fore, personal criticism directed at you. If it comes off that way, I apologize. I have heard very good things about your ethics and sportsmanship and this doesn't change that. And, frankly, a rare Marlin from a kayak is not a material event in the population. Even if this one dies, more probably die being hit by while on the hook or tail-wrapped.

Thanks for the invite, but I won't try it personally--I'd rather catch a dozen Blackfin Tuna, Albacore, or Dorado on a conventional gear or a fly rod over several hours than horse one fish around for that long. I have a different personal balance between size and quantity that defines the quality of my fishing experience--but of course that's personal choice. To each his own.

As for the decimation issue--anecdotal evvidence or personal perception are not valid empricial data--read the science for yourself. It's real and it's happening:
http://www.bigmarinefish.com/extinction.html
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:41mszFJrNXIJ:org.elon.edu/ipe/knerr.pdf+swordfish+decimation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5&client=firefox-a

As I always tell everyone I meet.  I have never met a kayak angler that I didn't like or that I felt was a jerk in any way.

And Chris even means me I think which shows incredible tolerance on his part

Of course wait until we set the date for the O'Neill Forebay Striper Smackdown MBF tounrey--then the gloves *really* come off  .