Shafted Striper Counts

So ... how does one go about petitioning? for rule changes like this?  I'm encouraged that we should be able to open up ocean fishing year round (same as shore fishermen) for human powered watercraft.

Bet you didn't see that coming, huh Red Ab?   

-Allen

I'm surprised the numbers are so small.

So ... how does one go about petitioning for rule changes like this?  I'm encouraged that we should be able to open up ocean fishing year round (same as shore fishermen) for human powered watercraft.

-Allen

Unless I am off here with checking the reg's but boat, human power and shore fishing is open year round for SB in the ocean.

I'm surprised the numbers are so small.

So ... how does one go about petitioning for rule changes like this?  I'm encouraged that we should be able to open up ocean fishing year round (same as shore fishermen) for human powered watercraft.

-Allen

Unless I am off here with checking the reg's but boat, human power and shore fishing is open year round for SB in the ocean.

Sorry ... I meant RCG.  But I'm on a major threadjack here.  Sorry, I'll start a new post.

-Allen

So ... how does one go about petitioning? for rule changes like this?  I'm encouraged that we should be able to open up ocean fishing year round (same as shore fishermen) for human powered watercraft.

Bet you didn't see that coming, huh Red Ab?   

-Allen

Nope......and in fact I was thinking why would this guy be asking this stuff when knows the answer
Played it safe.......just went the regs line. Maybe that will quite him down Good luck with RCG complex issue;) I'll support it I think. You Yaks want year round access, your logic is shore fishermen and divers(even diving from a boat) get year round access. Ah yaks don't count as boats or do they? Well yaks do count as boat, flotation devise if one try's to use a yak to take abalone or fish in some SCMA's right? Allen I'll give you the answer and your not going to like it and do remember these are not my words: "allowance" (access) were afforded to divers and shore base fishermen because it is believed our combined numbers do not represent any significance "impact" to the resources. Yak fishermen........are the numbers large, large enough to be of impact will be your battle I am afraid.     

So ... how does one go about petitioning? for rule changes like this?  I'm encouraged that we should be able to open up ocean fishing year round (same as shore fishermen) for human powered watercraft.

Bet you didn't see that coming, huh Red Ab?   

-Allen

Nope......and in fact I was thinking why would this guy be asking this stuff when knows the answer
Played it safe.......just went the regs line. Maybe that will quite him down Good luck with RCG complex issue;) I'll support it I think. You Yaks want year round access, your logic is shore fishermen and divers(even diving from a boat) get year round access. Ah yaks don't count as boats or do they? Well yaks do count as boat, flotation devise if one try's to use a yak to take abalone or fish in some SCMA's right? Allen I'll give you the answer and your not going to like it and do remember these are not my words: "allowance" (access) were afforded to divers and shore base fishermen because it is believed our combined numbers do not represent any significance "impact" to the resources. Yak fishermen........are the numbers large, large enough to be of impact will be your battle I am afraid.   

I've stated it many times in the past that I am against kayak specific regulations.  My thinking was that I'd rather not introduce issue that may be divisive to the overall fishing community.  I thought this striper issue was going to prove that out, but you know what, it didn't ... other than the initial knee jerk reaction (including my own), no one really cared. I haven't really heard a peep about this issue since way back when it first was enacted.

So now I'm rethinking my stance on kayak specific regulations.  I'm not all the way there yet, but I'm far enough that I'll come out of the closet.   

I actually like the "answer".  Are the numbers large?  Not really.  It's large enough of a user group that perhaps we could ask for something, but small enough that I don't think we'd be a "significant" impact to the resources.  Kayak anglers make up 2-3% of the angling population in the United States.  That's not "hardcore kayak anglers"either; that's the percentage of all anglers that used a kayak as a fishing platform in 2012.  I'm not sure of the local CA stats.  But raw numbers don't tell the whole story.  We are limited in range and in days we can get out, which lessens the impact even more.  I'd really love to know what number of fishing days are for the user group compare to the rest, but I know those numbers don't exist.

-Allen

Happy Christmas eve to all first! But Allen perhaps not a bridge to far after all with what you wisher for, and it ain't the look of a six year old kid not getting what he wanted for Christmas. That's not a happy face. Funny stuff on another issue altogether so anyways so lets see as a diver who uses a yak, yes one can spearfish year round and as a diver on a power boat, sail boat, small skiff (inflatable) I can spearfish year round as well. The "allowance" is, in the eyes of the DFW and the commission, as a user group, divers and shore fishermen in that mode of action or act are not considered to be any significant impact at any given time (numbers of impacts). And the logic goes on with the number of divers in spearfishing mode either from shore or boat are small, all things considered, and shore fishermen, just can't get line angles and or position or reach to really be of any real impact to fish belonging into the RGC complex of fishes, the fishes some are worried about, thus the reason why fishing for these fishes by boats and fishing rods (H&L) is curtailed by seasonal constraints (time allotment)

What's common and what is not common in this case, fish may be taken year round by spear only and some shore take and no significant impacts are made so the merits of the times compels right. What else is common here: it can not be the "craft" or "vessel" both Yak's and all kind's boats are allowed in the spearfishing take allowance. What is common here, getting into the water, submersion into the water, here in California during the winter requires a lot, a lot more than so many are not willing to do so it is perceived and it is deducted as so, so it goes, but what is common with this year round allowance is neither are allowed to have "fishing rods" on board or in possession at anytime while in the pursuit of take of fish by spearfishing during that off season period of time, the winter months. The prejudgment is "fishing rods" increase impact by watercraft because the numbers can be significant at the current limit allowances per rod. It's not the craft or crafts and it's not the divers and spears, I guess the argument is and your rebuttal must be: do fishing rods being employed by Yak fishermen increase impact.
Allen just trying to help you to get to your goal by discovery discussion.
~Best holiday to all~

And so what if the thread got majored jacked here by ya ! Spearfishing for SB is no significant impact and it's a forum board right, crap happens.

Your 2-3% numbers are good, just may have a chance with that.

I got shafted three times I went out for stripers this year. Not a single legal fish, lots of bait stealers and undersized, just no keepers.

I got shafted three times I went out for stripers this year. Not a single legal fish, lots of bait stealers and undersized, just no keepers.

+1 and whatever happened to bait stealing Mitten Crabs anyways ? They were shafting a lot of SB fishing back  some years ago.

Happy Holidays to you too Bill.

Do you happen to have any stats on what the actual impacts are by divers and shore fishermen?

-Allen

Happy Holidays to you too Bill.

Do you happen to have any stats on what the actual impacts are by divers and shore fishermen?

-Allen

I think I only killed one or two fish this year.

 

Sincerely,

Jim

Happy Holidays to you too Bill.

Do you happen to have any stats on what the actual impacts are by divers and shore fishermen?

-Allen

I think I only killed one or two fish this year.

 

Sincerely,

Jim

Keep practicing.  I'm sure you'll get better at it.  2014 is your year Jim!

-Allen

Nope guys no stats on what divers and shore fishermen take. I am quoting, if I recall correctly what was printed or said and used in the NCC MLPA process. There very well may be stats on the subject, Eco Trust data ??? DFW data, RFCS survey stuff but I think it was the MLPA stuff is where I am getting the justification as to why the allowances are.

Thus, perhaps the lack of data and just plain curiosity is why I started this this post. To what end, so I can pile yet another bit of what just may be useless information into an ready filled processor that I can pulled out in hopes, if needed BS should come about the subject of spearfishing and SB.

Will the Spero community cop to there actions about speared SB....................   

Bill,

Have you asked on spearboard and NCUH?

I saw on Facebook some pics of a guy who shot a big striper and then beat it over the head with a rock to kill it? Not sure why he needed the rock... 

But pretty sure he's not a member on here...

Sincerely,

Jim

Want some interesting reading?   http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2003/27_60fsor.pdf

I don't know when the spearfishing and shore based exemptions were enacted, but the above is from late 2003 when the proposal to allow exemptions was DENIED.

Currently, shore-based divers and anglers take a significant
proportion of the recreational catch of shallow nearshore
rockfish, cabezon and greenlings north of Point Conception. On
average, during March and April (the proposed closed period for
the Central Rockfish Lingcod Management area or RLMA) from
1996 through 1999 (recent years with no closures), shore-based
divers and anglers north of Point Conception took 8 percent of
the shallow nearshore rockfish, 73 percent of the cabezon, and
89 percent of the greenlings. Of the species affected by the
proposed closure, only cabezon showed up in significant
numbers in the catch of shore-based divers and anglers south
 
-2- f Point Conception. From 1996 through 1999, on average,
shore-based divers and anglers accounted for 6 percent of the
total recreational catch of cabezon in the Southern RLMA during
the proposed closed period (January and February).
o Divers using spear gear do take a portion of the recreational
allowance for nearshore species. From 1998 through 2002,
north of Point Conception, spear gear (for all fishing modes, not
just shore modes) accounted for 5 percent of the recreational
take of cabezon and 5 percent of the recreational take of
greenlings. From 1998 through 2002, south of Point
Conception, spear gear (for all fishing modes, not just shore
modes) accounted for 8 percent of the recreational take of
cabezon and 16 percent of the recreational take of California
sheephead.

-Allen

Bill,

Have you asked on spearboard and NCUH?

I saw on Facebook some pics of a guy who shot a big striper and then beat it over the head with a rock to kill it? Not sure why he needed the rock... 

But pretty sure he's not a member on here...

Sincerely,

Jim

Yes Jim, posted the same on spearboard, no bites on the subject as of yet and no pun intended with the "bites" either.

Now Jim surely you can't account for that high % of caps speared back in 96 to 99 can you