Future AOTY Suggestion: Total Species Points

Let's remember that AOTY is about who is the best Angler Of The Year ... This includes more than just catching fish (we can all do that). Angler of the year is about being a member of good caricature, being a good sport, and leading with a good example for others (example = MOOCH).

There has been a few mistakes made with pictures ... I sure made a few costly ones.
I doubt that many were done intentionally, and I would probably let them stand and just corrected for errors in measurement .... That's why I'm not a judge, and they have to be so stringent.

Only real problem I see with Sturgeon is,
Being as they are the only species in the AOTY with a slot limit ... you can only score a min - max amount of points.
With all other species in AOTY you have no real limit to the poss points.
In all fairness and with the issue of measuring without mortality ... This species should not be in the list for AOTY.
I'm sure many will have comments that differ, but what does this fish really prove anyways? ... Who can soak bait the best?

I've heard a lot of complaining, heck, I've done a bit myself about the AOTY rules and such ... but come 2013 I will send my money again and will probably lead for the first few months again, and come July I will probably stop posting fish and get busy at work and end somewhere between 5Th and 15Th. This is the way it goes every year and someone else claims the top spot.  This is O.K. because I know that day for day, I have still outfished the leaders who have much more time OTW than I. That is my true AOTY victory and I already won it.

That's a great way to look at it Eric, thanks for posting that.     My mistake was thinking that AOTY was a fun extension of the brotherhood of NCKA.  I see now, clearly it is not.  It is a very serious penis measuring contest where life and death hangs in the balance and somewhere kittens are being killed due to pictures that don't meet specific criteria   

It can be both. For some it is a fun little game with no expectation of winning. For others, it's a serious expression of who is the best fisherman on the site, who can catch the most and biggest fish.

There are a lot of competitive people in the world, and those are the ones who take it more seriously. I am someone who has essentially no competitive drive, so I just like to sit on the sidelines and watch the show every year. I think it's fun and I don't see it as being too important to worry about

That's a great way to look at it Eric, thanks for posting that.     My mistake was thinking that AOTY was a fun extension of the brotherhood of NCKA.  I see now, clearly it is not.  It is a very serious penis measuring contest where life and death hangs in the balance and somewhere kittens are being killed due to pictures that don't meet specific criteria   

hahahah You are kidding right? Heres a news flash....................... why dont you just say your striper pic is poor and go get another with a good pic. The pic sucks straight up dude. Can you even own that at all? When you were in first place earlier this year it seemed of paramount importance that we all knew that. So what happened?

We sit here year after year discussing this. Ive posted a crappie pic before too. I own it and can say that it sucked. Big time. Being called on your shit sometimes by your peers hurts but whats more important?

Already owned up to that pic sucks, reading comprehension is your friend, reread above.

I do find it ironic we are talking about a picture that doesn't even score 

Regardless, the fact that "we sit here year after year discussing this" is really all that needs to be said honestly.  Pilot error or faulty plane?  The evidence seems pretty clear the rules are designed or currently being interpreted poorly if so many people, year after year have the same issue.

It's cool guys, I get it.  The sandbox is what it is.  I won't be doing it again next year so it will be mute from my perspective, but you can, and I am sure you will, have this conversation again next year, and the year after, and the year after, and the year after with others.

Regardless, the fact that "we sit here year after year discussing this" is really all that needs to be said honestly.  Pilot error or faulty plane?  The evidence seems pretty clear the rules are designed or currently being interpreted poorly if so many people, year after year have the same issue.

Unreasonable passengers?  J/K.   

But seriously, the evidence does NOT seem pretty clear (well, maybe to you it does).  Here's another example.  We got a number of entries this year in which the reported measurement was not the same as what was posted in the picture.  At the end of the day, the cause was operator error.  The guys chalked it up to typing too fast, or perhaps dyslexia.  There was no malicious intent, they just got the number wrong.  Really, do we need a rule that says, "please enter the correct length".

-Allen

I'm about done with this thread.  Unless you've walked in an AOTY committee members shoes, you have very little idea what goes on behind the scenes, and what really goes on with the (mis)interpretation of the rules.  We've seen it all at this point.

Maybe I'm stubborn this way, but I don't like to make rules against stupidity.  You guys are grown men and women.  You know what the rules say.  And if you get your hand slapped when you (un)intentionally break them, go cry to Art.  He'll give you a big hug and make your boo boo feel better.

Peace!

-Allen

Pole:  My suggested modification to rule 2 actually addresses that very issue.

Your post illustrates what really should be the judging criteria:

What is the true length of the fish?

Operator error absolutely will happen, we are human after all, however look at this logically.  Year after year you have this same issue.  At some point you have to step back and go, "Hmm what is wrong here?"

I work in a highly regulated environment with real legal consequences for seemingly innocuous mistakes (pharmaceutical industry).  Year after year, one of our goals is error reduction.  We look for patterns of behavior that suggest repetitive errors performing the same operations.  Our focus is not on retraining analyst/operators as that has been shown over and over to not be effective.  The #1 cause of repetitive failures is almost always poorly written instructions or expectations that are not consistent with the reality of being on the shop floor.  This same theme has been endlessly analyzed in the safety arena with the same conclusions.

You have both: a poorly written rule and you have expectation that are not in alignment with measuring a fish on the water while in a kayak while juggling everything and trying to keep the fish from flopping out before the picture is taken.  Taken from your own photos:



I feel my suggestion for rule 2 puts the focus on what is important:

What is the true length of the fish?

  And if you get your hand slapped when you (un)intentionally break them, go cry to Art.  He'll give you a big hug and make your boo boo feel better.

Man, Art really is a great guy!

Pole:  My suggested modification to rule 2 actually addresses that very issue.

Your post illustrates what really should be the judging criteria:

What is the true length of the fish?

Operator error absolutely will happen, we are human after all, however look at this logically.  Year after year you have this same issue.  At some point you have to step back and go, "Hmm what is wrong here?"

I work in a highly regulated environment with real legal consequences for seemingly innocuous mistakes (pharmaceutical industry).  Year after year, one of our goals is error reduction.  We look for patterns of behavior that suggest repetitive errors performing the same operations.  Our focus is not on retraining analyst/operators as that has been shown over and over to not be effective.  The #1 cause of repetitive failures is almost always poorly written instructions or expectations that are not consistent with the reality of being on the shop floor.  This same theme has been endlessly analyzed in the safety arena with the same conclusions.

You have both: a poorly written rule and you have expectation that are not in alignment with measuring a fish on the water while in a kayak while juggling everything and trying to keep the fish from flopping out before the picture is taken.  Taken from your own photos:



I feel my suggestion for rule 2 puts the focus on what is important:

What is the true length of the fish?

Sounds like we have a volunteer for the 2013 AOTY Committee!!!   

-Allen

It can be both. For some it is a fun little game with no expectation of winning. For others, it's a serious expression of who is the best fisherman on the site, who can catch the most and biggest fish.

There are a lot of competitive people in the world, and those are the ones who take it more seriously. I am someone who has essentially no competitive drive, so I just like to sit on the sidelines and watch the show every year. I think it's fun and I don't see it as being too important to worry about

+1
But I am SO going to beat you this year, Ben! 

IMHO, the rules are very clear and obvious - most common sense of all would be - take a picture that clearly shows the length.
If something is obscuring the image, fish cut off, picture blown out, etc.... then that objective has not been met.
If you've messed up and don't have the picture, then too bad.  Go catch another and try again! 

IMHO, the rules are very clear and obvious - most common sense of all would be - take a picture that clearly shows the length.
If something is obscuring the image, fish cut off, picture blown out, etc.... then that objective has not been met.
If you've messed up and don't have the picture, then too bad.  Go catch another and try again! 

Very clearly written and should not be hard to understand

Edit:  Nevermind, not worth it.  I actually fish to have fun not stress about this kinda crap.

Then why are you STRESSING about this crap. No one is going to be on the "Front Page News" or be "Famous", or get invited to "Hollywood for a walk on the RedCarpet". The top 3 winners will get a sahweet azz handcrafted wooden plague and bragging rights for 1 year amongst your NCKA peers.
IT IS NOT THAT SERIOUS, so please relax and go fishing for fun. 

IMHO, the rules are very clear and obvious - most common sense of all would be - take a picture that clearly shows the length.
If something is obscuring the image, fish cut off, picture blown out, etc.... then that objective has not been met.
If you've messed up and don't have the picture, then too bad.  Go catch another and try again! 

Very clearly written and should not be hard to understand

Don't get me wrong guys.  I truly appreciate Roughster's feedback.  May even incorporate some of his suggestions!!!  I'll bet him a dollar the number of "bozo entries" doesn't go down.  It'll be a good experiment in human nature.

-Allen

Well ya got my attention so I looked at your striper pic. Thats the worst picture for AOTY ive seen for awhile. Is it really that hard to take a decent picture of a dead fish?

    Roflmao