UPDATE FROM THE MARINE CONSERVATION MEATING IN SANTA BARBARA TODAY

The real question is why all the hate towards shore pickers? There seems to be some form of resentment towards shore-bound harvesters by ab-diving purists. I've seen it expressed on a few different sites and I think it's lame to make broad generalizations against these groups. But whatever, maybe I'm totally misinformed.

Tidal zone Abs aren't usually right out in the open, they're underneath rocks, in cracks, upside down and around town    Its not always easy to gauge them before you pop them so abs get popped then returned to the same rock if they're short. Survival rate of popped abs is likely pretty close to zero as we all know they're hemophilio's.  Thus the rock picker is likely to have a greater impact to the resource.  Its like catch and release rockies.  At least thats how I understand it.

I should also note that I'm not a purist, I have not witnessed massive armies on a negative tide (mainly cause I dive at high tide, better vis) and don't harbor any ill will toward respectable rock pickers.   

The real question is why all the hate towards shore pickers? There seems to be some form of resentment towards shore-bound harvesters by ab-diving purists. I've seen it expressed on a few different sites and I think it's lame to make broad generalizations against these groups. But whatever, maybe I'm totally misinformed.

I think much of that animosity directed at the shore picker is due to their large numbers affecting a relatively small area during a minus tide. 

But...isn't their scope of harvest limited to like 10% of the total area that is accessible to divers? Because they're, like, stuck on shore and can only access a small part of what regular divers can access/?
My entire family (parents, cousins, uncles, grandparents) is into shore-picking and we've been doing it for a long, long time. So perhaps I am biased, and possibly reading too deep between the lines in sensing a divide between the two groups.

The real question is why all the hate towards shore pickers? There seems to be some form of resentment towards shore-bound harvesters by ab-diving purists. I've seen it expressed on a few different sites and I think it's lame to make broad generalizations against these groups. But whatever, maybe I'm totally misinformed.

for this exact reason agarcia stated

Tidal zone Abs aren't usually right out in the open, they're underneath rocks, in cracks, upside down and around town    Its not always easy to gauge them before you pop them so abs get popped then returned to the same rock if they're short. Survival rate of popped abs is likely pretty close to zero as we all know they're hemophilio's.  Thus the rock picker is likely to have a greater impact to the resource.  Its like catch and release rockies.  At least thats how I understand it.

ok, well maybe there's some hate from the purists, just like any sport. but what does that have to do with marine conservation?

ive never rock picked and i'm not really planning to, but unless there's some science to back up the idea, making a reg to hurt rock pickers seems like a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

ok, well maybe there's some hate from the purists, just like any sport. but what does that have to do with marine conservation?

ive never rock picked and i'm not really planning to, but unless there's some science to back up the idea, making a reg to hurt rock pickers seems like a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

Not sure I'm really down with further regulating pickers but I'm super against closing the fort for an extra 2 months....people will die because of it.  What is SCANs take on that matt?

At this time Scan is trying to determine how to handle and address these issue's and what will be the best way to appoch it, for the recreational harvesters of abalone. As things develope I will post I now Milo the president of S.C.A.N has his work cut out for him.

Hey all this is to follow up with my first post,

I just got this from the presdident of SCAN.


"To all SCAN members,

 I needed to attend the Marine Resources Sub Committee of the Fish and Game Commission, Tuesday. Unfortunately it was held in Santa Barbara, ten hours away, and my air conditioner went out at the beginning of the trip. Well, so much for the whining.

 The DFG Biologist offered options to the Sub Committee including cutting our bag to 2 and yearly from 9 to 15 even though we have not hit the 5,000 threshold, using their standard “ in an abundance of caution” theme. Secondly, to cut the season at Ft. Ross by 2 months and to set a start time for the abalone harvest at 8 AM.

 The Sub Committee asked staff to prepare language for the 8 AM start and 2-month change at Ft Ross, which leaves our bag alone.

 The 2 months at Ft Ross is to effort shift some of the take out, and is needed, because if we hit the 3000 threshold in the ARMP it will require closing Ft Ross.

 The 8 AM start time is to curb some of the effort of Rock Pickers, by eliminating some of the lowest tides.

 I don’t know if we have any Rock Pickers as SCAN members, but if you Rock Pick as a main means of harvest, I would like to hear from you on this issue. Contact me on the site at “contact us”.      www.abalonenetwork.org

 Some of the top people at DFG realize that the way we evaluate the resource is inadequate at best, and that we must revisit the Abalone Recovery Management Plan (ARMP) and do a much better analysis. I pointed out many of the problems in the data and the way the surveys are being conducted.
 
 We operate under the interim management plan in the ARMP. We are supposed to be in the long-term plan by next year, and it has not even been developed. So we face a ton of work ahead, in developing a plan that will protect the resource, and provide for a healthy sustainable fishery.

Milo Vukovich
President, SCAN
http://www.abalonenetwork.org

Email: [email protected]
JOIN SCAN to protect your sport

The 8 AM start time is to curb some of the effort of Rock Pickers, by eliminating some of the lowest tides.

 I don’t know if we have any Rock Pickers as SCAN members, but if you Rock Pick as a main means of harvest, I would like to hear from you on this issue. Contact me on the site at “contact us”.     

Hmmmmmmm....

This is no surprise.  They will close the Fort eventually.  There is a redirection of effort from the Salt Point areas to the only other open areas like Fort Ross and Timber Cove on rougher dive days.  Thanks MLPA.  I have a giant sour grape about the whole F%$#@ing thing.  DFG only gets 10% of the ab cards back anyway and they are making take decisions on data that is absolutely worthless. 
Dave

But...isn't their scope of harvest limited to like 10% of the total area that is accessible to divers? Because they're, like, stuck on shore and can only access a small part of what regular divers can access/?
My entire family (parents, cousins, uncles, grandparents) is into shore-picking and we've been doing it for a long, long time. So perhaps I am biased, and possibly reading too deep between the lines in sensing a divide between the two groups.

I think part of it is that many - not all - rockpickers kill or injure a lot of abalone that are either short or too hard to remove from the rock. Those abs die and don't get counted on the cards.

OK I think I understand that theory. But I have never seen or heard of anybody accidentally popping an undersize ab while on dry land...it's a lot easier to get an accurate measurement on land than it is underwater IMO. I guess I was just concerned that the user group of rockpickers was being discriminated against based on inaccurate stigmas like that they are all of a certain race/ethnicity or that they are all poachers. Because that w/b lame, and offensive.

From what I've seen, rock-picking is often blind, by reaching under rocks until you feel an ab, then pry away at it until you get it. Many times, rock-pickers don't even see the ab until it's in their hand, while divers usually search by sight. Anyway, I've never rock-picked, so I don't know for sure.

I agree with Matt from earlier on, that differentiating between shallow-water diving and rock-picking would allow wardens some ridiculous freedom of interpretation when it comes to issuing citations.

IMO:

I've done a fair amount of ab diving but I'm sure I'm not as experienced as allot of others, like Matt for instance.

With that said, I don't believe for one second that rock pickers by themselves have any measurable impact on overall ab populations,  I've seen gazillions of abs from tide pools to about 40 ft.  The idea that rock pickers with their depth, minus tide opportunity and pickable areas being so limited, could actually affect overall ab populations is really hard to believe.  Ab pops may be in decline but in IMO pickers probably have the smallest impact of any harvest group.

In that light I think that any restriction aimed at pickers is done for only one reason, to reduce overall take.
It may somewhat help the populations in the very small percentage of coastline where picking is done, but overall any reg limiting pickers would be just to make it harder to harvest them.  It's similar if not exactly like not taking abs with scuba.

Here we go! Site specific regulations.

Believe me, this will just be the beginning. F*cking MLPAs force the same number of consumers into half the area. All of a sudden it is noticed that these open areas are getting decimated (Duh!), so now we better start making tighter restrictions on these open areas, too!