hotrodding a trinidad/torium 16/20/30

i got the carbontex drags a while back and finally had a chance to go through the torium.   this was a brand new reel, straight out of the box.  here's a shot of the reel with three carbontex drags and a penn ht-100.  going right to left, you see a coarse weave carbontex, next a thinner fine weave carbontex, another coarse weave carbontex, and a standard penn ht-100 #6-320.  







first, let's remove the handle (key #'s 128, 603, 262, 604 and 264)







now the star (key # 605), the washers underneath (key #'s 266, 267, 268, 269, 270), the click pin and spring (key #'s 295 and 296), and the bearing (key # 486) if you can get to it.







now back out the side plate screws (key #'s 606, 305 and 306), noting first the difference in the shapes of the screw heads.  remove the right side plate (key # 607) and set it aside.







now pull the gear/drag cluster out (key #'s 287, 288, 289, 288, 290, 291, 292 and 418) and line everything up.  in the photo, i cleaned off the black grease so you could tell the difference between the carbon and metal washers.  the carbon tex washers are lined up as well.  







here's a shot of the base with the guts in place.  note that the anti-reverse ratchet (key #294) is also still in place.  you'll save yourself some time this way.







now we're going to rebuild the drag cluster.  i like to slap a generous coat of grease on the washers.  use more or less if you'd like.  this is just what i do.







dig the roller clutch inner tube (key # 494) out of the roller clutch bearing (key #493).  place the roller clutch inner tube over the drive shaft (key # 609) and seat it into the key washer (key # 287).  wiggle the side plate on.  don't forget the line clip (key # 280).  you always wondered what was there for, huh!  



reverse all the above steps and reassemble the reel.  the only tricky part left is the installation of the click pin and spring.  i install the drag spring washers (key #'s 267 and 268) and the star drag washer (key # 266) first, then install the click spring and pin (key #'s 295 and 296).  push the pin down with a small flat screwdriver and wedge the star drag washer over the top of the click pin.  when you spin on the star (key #605), the pin will stay in place.  



so i spooled up this torium 16 and got 18#'s of smooth drag.  a trinidad 20 that i worked on yesterday had 10#'s of drag with dartaniums, and 15#'s of drag with carbontex.  needless to say, i'm very happy with carbontex!

Alantani I'm curious what some of the advantages of using cabontex. I will assume the drags where OK and you just want to make them better?

Any extra info. you have on the Shimano Torium 16 that you have the dirt on would be interesting, thanks.

I don't know how smooth the drags are on Toriums out of the box but the carbonex drags on Abus make them super smooth. I am assuming they do the same on the Torium's.

P.S. Never fish an Abu without Alan's drag upgrade! 

here's another reel.  different that the first photol.  carbontex washers, shimano drag grease, 24 pounds of drag, smooth as butter.  i wish i could say different, but the dartaniums are no match for grease carbon fiber drags. 

the pinion on the 16 looks like machined brass? can it take heavy drag? just curious,  .

another advantage, from what alan told me, the carbontex also lasts a lot longer, maybe long
enough that something will break before the (greased) carbontex wears out, whereas the
life on standard drag washers is more on the order of one 'season'. obviously one person's
season is different from another, but it's not 'lifetime'.

btw, I have seen that cabelas is selling abu's with 'carbon matrix' drags, so
maybe they are coming standard on some models now?

good eye, john. the pinion gear is not stainless steel. as most are. but it's not soft brass, either.  it must be some sort of alloy.  i'm also guessing that it's hard enough to last longer than either of us.  with the sticky dartanium drag washers, i'm sure there have been plenty of times when lot's of the "effective" drag pressures surged 50-100%.  i'm not aware of pinion gear failure and would be very surprised if there were any. 

as for the ambassaduer line of reels. the abu record has carbon fiber drags.  they're dry, but at least that's a step in the right direction. 

the list of reels that use greased carbon fiber drag washers now includes shimano tld two speeds, tyrnos two speeds and tiagra, daiwa two speeds, penn v-series internationals, tiburon smart shifts, all new accurates and all used ones that are returned to the factory for service, and the pro challenger that will soon be introduced from china.  the "dry list  includes okuma and avet.  i know you guys love your avets, but here a photo of a dry avet drag that might give you something to ponder....

Great info Alan,
Are those carbontex's just layered between the metal plates or replacing them? Where can we buy the carbontex's?
Thanks,
Craig

www.smoothdrag.com

also www.mikesreelrepair.com

I have ordered from both.

they don't replace the metal plates, just the drag washers.

after alan posted how to hot rod an abu, and did one of mine
in front me (he actually used thicker ht-100 washers for that one),
I did 5 others of mine, plus I replaced some 6.3:1 gears with 3.8:1 winch gears too.
the pinion is twice as big for the 3.8:1 case as the 6.3:1 case.
should be more durable for local rockfish/halibut
and also trolling with heavy weights.

In the abu case, it was super easy. I still have not opened my 330gti.

alan, that is a gruesome picture! how did it get like that I wonder?

Hey thanks Alantani for the info. you posted and the help on the reel advice.

Hey alan have you seen the drag upgrade for the toriums and trinadads?  It isn't a diffrent drag it is a larger sideplate and a bigger washer  that allows the drag to be cranked down 20% more.  I wonder what that would do combined with the carbontex washers.

i called shimano about this.   spoke to one of the service advisors and this was his answer.  there were a half dozen reels that had seized up, they would not un-seize, and were returned to the service center in irvine.  the topmost metal drag washer is "cupped down" normally.  the owners of these six reels had cranked down on the star so much, that the "cupped" metal drag washer collapsed.  they decided to make a thicker top metal drag washer.  to do that, they had to make a longer drive shaft and a slightly wider right side plate.  ONLY these three items are being changed out in the reel. nothing else. 

ok, fine.  i commend shimano for offering those changes for free.  but i do not believe that it addresses the basic problem. 

so here's my take.  dartanium drags are garbage.  they're hard carbon, no give, and no range.  lean on them and they go to 12 pounds of drag and that's it.  i think guys were cranking down on the stars because of this.  i think this is how the top metal washer failed.  i can install a set of greased carbontex washers and get twice the drag without even breaking a sweat.  go figure.  shimano pioneered the combination of woven carbon fiber and teflon grease.  it's expensive, but it works flawlessly forever.  i do not know why this is not used for all of their reels.  i would love to pose this question to someone high up enough in the company to make a difference. 

Are you going to have these drag washers this Thusday?  I was thinking about bring my Torium 16 and my Tekota...I'll be in the neighborhood that day.

yes.  i bought 10 sets and i'm about half way through them.  they're $18 per set.  ouch!!!!!!!

Save two sets...see you there!!

It was my understanding that your problem before the carbontex was that you couldent fit the ht-100 drag washers that you used in the past.  If You used the bigger sideplate and longer shaft but not the thicker washer couldent you then use thicker carbonfiber washers.  would this be an advantage or do the carbontex make this unnessary.