Regulations question about crabs and rockfish

Can I, without breaking any regs, set a few crab traps and then go fish for rockfish while they soak?

(I searched the archive but could find no answers).

Only during crab season! but during season, its cool. Ive got a good feeling about crab season this year. Ive just seen/had soo many incidental dungies caught on hook and line from the beach from Muir beach to Bolinas....

This is a very common practice. Dropping traps then catching a few rockfish to pass the time. Guys do it all the time: both from boats and from kayaks.
So it seems like the simple answer is Yes. But I know you wouldn’t ask this question unless there was something else going on….like a trick question. And I think I see where you’re going with this one.


If you were to do this, you would technically be using 2 separate appliances at the same time: a crab trap AND a fishing pole. It is illegal to keep any rockfish that are caught while using 2 rods (or 2 appliances, or 3 hooks, etc). So, according to the regs, the answer is No.

Of course, there are loopholes or extenuating circumstances---you can drop a crab trap and then go halibut fishing. You might happen to incidentally catch some rockfish in the process, and you would have to release said rockfish. But that scenario is completely legal. It would be awfully tragic if you happened to catch a monster ling or verm, and had to release it because you’re waiting for the crabs to come in.

It’s hard to believe that this is the first time I’ve encountered this question. Because it is quite a common practice. This one has to be the most-frequently overlooked violation.
Good Question!

This is a very common practice. Dropping traps then catching a few rockfish to pass the time. Guys do it all the time: both from boats and from kayaks.
So it seems like the simple answer is Yes. But I know you wouldn’t ask this question unless there was something else going on….like a trick question. And I think I see where you’re going with this one.


If you were to do this, you would technically be using 2 separate appliances at the same time: a crab trap AND a fishing pole. It is illegal to keep any rockfish that are caught while using 2 rods (or 2 appliances, or 3 hooks, etc). So, according to the regs, the answer is No.

Of course, there are loopholes or extenuating circumstances---you can drop a crab trap and then go halibut fishing. You might happen to incidentally catch some rockfish in the process, and you would have to release said rockfish. But that scenario is completely legal. It would be awfully tragic if you happened to catch a monster ling or verm, and had to release it because you’re waiting for the crabs to come in.

It’s hard to believe that this is the first time I’ve encountered this question. Because it is quite a common practice. This one has to be the most-frequently overlooked violation.
Good Question!

Ha ha, yes, that is exactly why I asked the question; the way I understand the rules, it would be illegal. I was assuming that this had been chewed over before which is why I searched the archives. I want to soak some rings for red rock crabs while I go rockfishing, but I don't want to get a ticket from a jobsworth DFG'er.

Sin Coast.
WOW...i thought i had a pretty good handle on the regs... but i didnt see this one!With all the party boats offering rockfish/crab combos i didnt give it a second thought.
Ok heres another one..from the regs

1.63. Movement of Live Fish. Except as provided in Sections 4.00 through 4.30 and 230, live fin fish may not be transported alive from the water where taken.

First off where the hell is 4.00 thro 4.30, or 230...nowhere in this document!

So if I buy a scoop of chovies from Berkley and take em out tuna fishing, or even to the rock wall im transporting live fin fish and am a bad guy.???

doubt either reg will change my habits drastically..never heard of the crab/rockfish thing being enforced. dosent mean it wont or cant
.... didnt even want to bring up the live bait thing cause enforcement would have dire effects on the rec fishing sector...

Well, here is what Mary Patyten at the DFG had to say on the matter. I asked her the following question;

"Is it legal for me to drop some crab traps and then fish for rockfish while the crab traps are in the water?"

to which she replied;

"The answer to your question is yes, as long as both seasons (rockfish and crab) are open when you do so!"

I considered replying that the regulations imply otherwise, but Sharkys point about the party boats seals it (I hadn't heard of rockfish/crab combo's, only sanddab/crab combos).

Just to be sure, I'll save Marys email somewhere safe..........

This is a sticky one.

Yeah, lots of partyboats offer crab+rocky combos. But that is a different circumstance. The traps belong to the boat, and are pulled up by the deckies. So the boat is responsible for the traps, not the customers/passengers. Each passenger is still using only 1 rod/appliance.

Man sometimes I feel like I know the regs better than the wardens! Although, they have to memorize a lot more than just the local marine sportfishing regs. I work right next door to the Monterey DFG office and frequently have lunch with some of the wardens and DFG personnel. I’m always quizzing them and vice-versa. They always get me on the hunting regs though.
I will definitely bring this one up next time we have lunch. In fact, maybe I’ll go ask today.
Remember, it is up to each individual enforcement officer to interpret the law at their own discretion. So, if you encounter one who thinks it is a violation, it won’t matter what Mary Payten said.

In the end, you probably would not get a citation unless you were pulling up/dropping a trap WHILE your line was in the water, with rockfish onboard. Right?

Sin,
i wass under the impression that there needed to be full participation of the passengers while crabbin. ive had captians drill this into the guests. No actual pulling, but baiting, sorting, spotting, so wouldnt that tie the customers to the pots?murky grey area? cant wait to hear what they say....i agree that the chances of gettig busted are almost zero. Ive had a warden straight up tell me he would never enforce the transport rule(for live bait), unless you were being a dick, like calling him names or telling him you pay his salary.be REALLY nice. it may not get you off every time, but it does sometimes.....

I wonder if this could have a major affect on the rockfish/crab combos the cattle boats run?

I respect PK's interpretation, but I disagree.  A crab trap or even a ring is the type of device that is known to fish without a person present.  If you dropped pots and let them soak for a week does that mean you can't do any other kind of fishing while your pots are out?  I don't think so.

It'll be interesting to hear what your warden lunch-mates say, PK...  "Well, Pat, if you're buying lunch today I think we could arrange to see that you don't get a citation for that..."   

In the end, you probably would not get a citation unless you were pulling up/dropping a trap WHILE your line was in the water, with rockfish onboard. Right?

I would be pulling my traps up once I'm done rockfishing, so I plan to have plenty of rockfish on board. Unless I'm fishing with you at MBK  

I think our pierpast might be influencing this. The regs (below) seem to care about crab traps only on piers. I think that's where I got the idea from. Although it does specify one line for Sebastes. Traps require a "line" as well. I guess technically you could catch a rockfish in a crab trap.........

I asked Mary P for further clarification.

I can't believe you haven't had lunch yet Pat!


28.65. General. Except as provided in this article, fin fish may be taken only on hook and line or
by hand. Any number of hooks and lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays except:
(a) San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez
Bridge, where only one line with not more than three hooks may be used.
(b) On public piers, no person shall use more than two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two
nets, traps or other appliances used to take crabs.
(c) When rockfish (genus Sebastes) or lingcod (Ophiodon elongatus) are aboard or in possession,
where only one line with not more than two hooks may be used pursuant to Sections
28.55 or 28.27, respectively.

Mary P is sticking to her guns. I think the last paragraph has it down.


"Section 28.65, general restrictions on gear used to take finfish (pg. 51 of the current Ocean Sport Fishing regulations booklet) is pretty clear on this:
 
"28.65. General. Except as provided in this article, fin fish may be taken only on hook and line or by hand. Any number of hooks and lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays except:
...(c) When rockfish (genus Sebastes) or lingcod (Ophiodon elongatus) are aboard or in possession, where only one line with not more than two hooks may be used pursuant to Sections 28.55 or 28.27, respectively. ..."
 
Section 28.55 describes gear used to take rockfish (not crab) as "Not more than two hooks and one line." Section 28.27 refers to lingcod, and the same definition is used for legal gear.
 
There is a very clear split between allowable gear for finfish and for crustaceans. Crustaceans cannot be taken by hook and line (see Section 29.80). Nor can finfish be taken by trap or net (see Section 28.65). Nowhere in the regulations are these disparate fishing gears lumped together or prohibited from simultaneous use.
 
I hope this helps!"

All of the wardens were in the field when I stopped by to ask the question. But I had a great conversation about it with one of the biologists there. He is also a member of NCKA. He's going to talk to one of the wardens and get back to me. Thanks Matt!

Some of the sticking points here---one for the negative side: fish DO swim into crab traps, most often those of the sebastes class.
But on the positive side: the intent of the law prohibiting two lines for rockfish has a specific purpose; and that purpose is NOT to prevent anglers from harvesting crab and catching rockfish in the same day. So it is conceivable that a warden would agree that you are not meaning to break the intent of the law.


Yes, people DO soak traps for weeks at a time and continue catching+keeping fish throughout the week. Completely legal as long as they aren't keeping RCG fish.


I agree with NB that my pierfishing background may have swayed my thought process on this. Because I know for a fact that you can only use 2 rods/appliances at a time from a pier/jetty. Those two appliances can be a combo of 1 rod and 1 trap, or 2 rods, or 2 traps.....but you definitely can NOT use 2 rods and 1 trap. A crab trap is an appliance used to "take"  and is classified similarly to a rod or handline or pokepole.


I'm sticking to my theory that this is technically an illegal practice. But vastly overlooked and ignored. It is probably the second most-frequently overlooked violation. What's number 1? A freezer containing more than the possession limit for any given species. That one is a bit harder to enforce though.

Sin,
so whats yer take on my question about transport of live finfish?
 that could also be added to the short list of most common transgressions..

Good Q. But I think the law prohibiting transportation of live finfish is more of an inland fisheries issue. They don't want people to plant invasive species like white bass or pike.
When it comes to transporting baitfish from one part of the ocean to another, it probably isn't a big issue for them.
I'm definitely not any kind of expert--I just like to catch fish.