Commercial Fishing from Kayak

Is the commercial license tied to calendar year, or is it DMV style 12 months renewed on an anniversary date?

Thank you for clearing up, I did not really follow up. I will try to get a better understanding of the cost. It is possible the people I talked to did not really get a commercial license and are now breaking the law. This of course brings up the question that there is so little enforcement and that someone can overfish and most will not get caught. Sort of like the abalone that used to be up north along the Sonoma coast and is now gone, illegal harvesting, it happens.

Is the commercial license tied to a species?  I know that commercial boat shave different seasons/area they can fish, but do they need specific permits for specific fish?

There are extra permits required beyond those I already outlined for "limited entry" and "restricted access" fisheries.  Some examples are bottom trawling for california halibut, herring, market squid from those boats you see that light up the water like daytime, and dungeness crab.  What I've outlined is the minimum cost for someone who wants to fish for halibut no differently than we all already do from our kayaks, but without the recreational bag limits. 

In other words, if the kayaker you're talking with says he's commercial and he doesn't even have CF numbers on his boat... you already know they didn't check all the boxes.  If they didn't spent at least $700 in fees, they probably haven't checked all the boxes.  If they say "oh, I'm just keeping these 5 halibut for personal use today under my commercial license, so I don't have to land them in E-Tix," they haven't checked all the boxes to be legal.  You get the point.

Is the commercial license tied to a species?  I know that commercial boat shave different seasons/area they can fish, but do they need specific permits for specific fish?

There are extra permits required beyond those I already outlined for "limited entry" and "restricted access" fisheries.  Some examples are bottom trawling for california halibut, herring, market squid from those boats you see that light up the water like daytime, and dungeness crab.  What I've outlined is the minimum cost for someone who wants to fish for halibut no differently than we all already do from our kayaks, but without the recreational bag limits. 

In other words, if the kayaker you're talking with says he's commercial and he doesn't even have CF numbers on his boat... you already know they didn't check all the boxes.  If they didn't spent at least $700 in fees, they probably haven't checked all the boxes.  If they say "oh, I'm just keeping these 5 halibut for personal use today under my commercial license, so I don't have to land them in E-Tix," they haven't checked all the boxes to be legal.  You get the point.

That's kinda what I figured. Was curious if the commercial license covered, say, lingcod or striped bass too. 

The Etix thing was new to me, and I am guessing that isn't being followed by individual people harvesting using a CFL.  I was hoping I could get data from the site, but requires a login.


https://wildlife.ca.gov/Fishing/Commercial/Landing-Resources

It does say clearly:

New to commercial fishing? All fish caught under the authority of a commercial fishing license, even for personal use, must be landed and documented on an electronic fish ticket and submitted to E-Tix. Commercial fishermen must locate a licensed fish business willing to land their catch or they must possess a Fisherman's Retail License to report their commercial fish landings through the E-Tix portal. You cannot purchase a commercial fishing license or register a commercial fishing vessel for the first time without contacting [email protected] or (916) 928-5822 to establish your commercial fishing customer account.

It also appears you cannot just pay for a CFL and go about your business, you have to contact them for your initial license sale and hopefully they are explaining nuances of the program to new people?

Either way, I keep wondering if its worth it to be a kayak commercial fisherman.  How many can you keep on a kayak at one time anyway.  A boat would become much more attractive if you wanted to be fishing for $$.  How are you going to keep 79 halibut on a kayak 

For $780 at $10 per lb, it does seem to pay it for itself though after selling 5 x 20lb halibut?

Is the commercial license tied to a species?  I know that commercial boat shave different seasons/area they can fish, but do they need specific permits for specific fish?

There are extra permits required beyond those I already outlined for "limited entry" and "restricted access" fisheries.  Some examples are bottom trawling for california halibut, herring, market squid from those boats you see that light up the water like daytime, and dungeness crab.  What I've outlined is the minimum cost for someone who wants to fish for halibut no differently than we all already do from our kayaks, but without the recreational bag limits. 

In other words, if the kayaker you're talking with says he's commercial and he doesn't even have CF numbers on his boat... you already know they didn't check all the boxes.  If they didn't spent at least $700 in fees, they probably haven't checked all the boxes.  If they say "oh, I'm just keeping these 5 halibut for personal use today under my commercial license, so I don't have to land them in E-Tix," they haven't checked all the boxes to be legal.  You get the point.

That's kinda what I figured. Was curious if the commercial license covered, say, lingcod or striped bass too.

there is no commercial fishery for Striped Bass. Its illegal to possess them on a commercial vessel. (similar to Sturgeon, which started the whole (most recent) diehard debacle)

Take of Lingcod is permitted under Halibut permit as its common bybatch in the ocean

It also appears you cannot just pay for a CFL and go about your business, you have to contact them for your initial license sale and hopefully they are explaining nuances of the program to new people?

They were super helpful when I reached out.  They gave me an extensive list of "getting started" points which I have repeated here, plus they offered to answer any future questions as I moved through the process.  I don't have any plans to go commie on my kaya, though, so I won't be seeing how helpful they are in the next steps. 

Is the commercial license tied to a species?  I know that commercial boat shave different seasons/area they can fish, but do they need specific permits for specific fish?

There are extra permits required beyond those I already outlined for "limited entry" and "restricted access" fisheries.  Some examples are bottom trawling for california halibut, herring, market squid from those boats you see that light up the water like daytime, and dungeness crab.  What I've outlined is the minimum cost for someone who wants to fish for halibut no differently than we all already do from our kayaks, but without the recreational bag limits. 

In other words, if the kayaker you're talking with says he's commercial and he doesn't even have CF numbers on his boat... you already know they didn't check all the boxes.  If they didn't spent at least $700 in fees, they probably haven't checked all the boxes.  If they say "oh, I'm just keeping these 5 halibut for personal use today under my commercial license, so I don't have to land them in E-Tix," they haven't checked all the boxes to be legal.  You get the point.

That's kinda what I figured. Was curious if the commercial license covered, say, lingcod or striped bass too.

there is no commercial fishery for Striped Bass. Its illegal to possess them on a commercial vessel. (similar to Sturgeon, which started the whole (most recent) diehard debacle)

Take of Lingcod is permitted under Halibut permit as its common bybatch in the ocean

Striper was a bad example, but I get the idea.  I know some fisheries are federally managed, vs some are state managed.  I think the root of my question is do state managed fisheries require different permits for different species.  Seems like yes, for some. 


Different question: Can a person hold both a recreational and commercial fishing license? 

Just want to fully understand what diehard did wrong.  He is licensed as a commercial fisherman, and his kayak is registered as a commercial fishing vessel.  He used his kayak (commercial fishing vessel) to fish for sturgeon.  Did he intend to sell his catch?  Can he not use his kayak for recreational fishing, even if he does not intend to sell his catch, and is following sport fishing rules?  Does he not have a recreational fishing license and sturgeon tag?

Is the commercial license tied to a species?  I know that commercial boat shave different seasons/area they can fish, but do they need specific permits for specific fish?

There are extra permits required beyond those I already outlined for "limited entry" and "restricted access" fisheries.  Some examples are bottom trawling for california halibut, herring, market squid from those boats you see that light up the water like daytime, and dungeness crab.  What I've outlined is the minimum cost for someone who wants to fish for halibut no differently than we all already do from our kayaks, but without the recreational bag limits. 

In other words, if the kayaker you're talking with says he's commercial and he doesn't even have CF numbers on his boat... you already know they didn't check all the boxes.  If they didn't spent at least $700 in fees, they probably haven't checked all the boxes.  If they say "oh, I'm just keeping these 5 halibut for personal use today under my commercial license, so I don't have to land them in E-Tix," they haven't checked all the boxes to be legal.  You get the point.

That's kinda what I figured. Was curious if the commercial license covered, say, lingcod or striped bass too.

there is no commercial fishery for Striped Bass. Its illegal to possess them on a commercial vessel. (similar to Sturgeon, which started the whole (most recent) diehard debacle)

Take of Lingcod is permitted under Halibut permit as its common bybatch in the ocean

Striper was a bad example, but I get the idea.  I know some fisheries are federally managed, vs some are state managed.  I think the root of my question is do state managed fisheries require different permits for different species.  Seems like yes, for some. 


Different question: Can a person hold both a recreational and commercial fishing license? 

Just want to fully understand what diehard did wrong.  He is licensed as a commercial fisherman, and his kayak is registered as a commercial fishing vessel.  He used his kayak (commercial fishing vessel) to fish for sturgeon.  Did he intend to sell his catch?  Can he not use his kayak for recreational fishing, even if he does not intend to sell his catch, and is following sport fishing rules?  Does he not have a recreational fishing license and sturgeon tag?

You can possess both licenses, but a vessel registered as commercial is only that from my understanding
 It is illegal to possess sturgeon on a commercial vessel

Wow, this all gets so difficult and that is one of the problems. I agree, I think the people I have talked with have not checked all the boxes and what they are doing is illegal. The real problem is there is very little enforcement and hard to catch these "didn't check all the boxes" kayakers. I think this is no different than the past problem on the elimination of abalone on the Sonoma coast. While it is true the abalone was sold overseas the point is, it is to difficult to enforce fishing regulations. I do think there will be kayakers that abuse these commercial rules and I think the concept and use of party boats make it to easy to transport many fishermen to track down and catch the halibut. Especially  this season when the influx of fresh water has led the majority of halibut to  hang out south of the Bay bridge, thus making it easy to be caught by the party boats. I think at some point we have to agree that these old rules and ways of looking at the fishing industry will have to change is we want the wonderful resource to continue for future recreation and enjoyment. This is just how I feel and think, thanks all for your opinions, Ron.

Ron,

I’m not sure how long you’ve been fishing, but you appear to be severely misguided on alot of subjects and I have a hard time understanding how you’re coming to such drastic conclusions. 

Abalone are “gone” because there was a mass die off attributed to a red tide and algae bloom that plagued the intertidal coast for several weeks.  Then the kelp forests that were the food source for the survivors got hammered by storms and urchin, whose population went unchecked because of a seastar dieoff.  You can read about it online from any of the Sonoma based news organizations.  While poaching was always an issue, it was not THE issue. Considering that there were bad actors around when I was actively diving, there was still a ton of abalone all over the sea floor and getting a limit at any spot was easy.

I also wouldn’t consider a handful of old dudes at the pier, the best barometer for measuring halibut populations.  The fish are gonna be fine bud, take a breath. 

Hey ex kayaker, thanks for you response, I have to say I am also a scubas/free diver  and do remember the abalone population effected way before the die off, so I am not sure that is correct. In fact I started to scuba dive out of high school and that was a good 50 years ago and I can confirm we had much more fish in the ocean than now, so I think we can come up with many explanations as to why but the important fact is there are much less. You mention the die off and this is a direct result on weather change that caused a bacteria to effect the sea stars, so weather is a contributing factor to these problems. I also know most biologist agree that the illegal harvest and selling overseas was a major factor in speeding up the lost population. I hope you are right about the halibut. I would like to say that one of the posters here gave a link to several studies from the state and one had a very good breakdown of the halibut and where they have been caught in the last few years and also of the size of average catch. It does seem this year the halibut seem confined to a smaller area, south of the bay bridge and this can because of the fresh water from run off. I think everyone is in agreement that the halibut are going to be stressed by possible overfishing because of salmon fishing closure. I also  am to understand that the season may be closed for several years to have the appropriate rebound necessary for the fishing to open up and that is if we are lucky. I did mention I started diving in the early 70's so I also remember the start of the environmental movement motivated by Love canal and do believe that we must give the same attention to this reduction in marine environment that we did back then. So while I will try to relax and keep cool I will also be aware that we could be at a tipping point and continue to push for change, thank you, Ron.

I've seen photos on IG of that bozo DieHard trying to sell his stupid 22" halibut for $50.  Who knows if that kid is even doing anything on the level, most of them seem to be breaking commercial regulations on the regular so I wouldn't be listening to those guys in terms of how to fully/legally be a commercial fisherman. 

Once you affix the CF #s to your commercially-registered “vessel,” you will not be able to loan your kayak to anybody (unless they too have a comm license). In fact, other people can’t legally touch your kayak or even help you carry it/load it onto your car. And good luck selling your kayak after it’s been registered…
Not to mention, you can’t keep sturgeon or stripers from your kayak now. And you can only keep salmon or rockfish if you have the appropriate permits (Near Shore Permit required for most types of rockfish).

FG#'s not CF