The Cost of Being Green

[splashdown]

Fuel cells would be great, if it didn't take so much energy to produce them. They have to be kept at 850 degrees C to start producing power. They use methane to do so, but it gets post processed and cracked. they only produce about 40W per cell so it takes alot of them to produce sufficient power.

I agree with nuclear and have worked in that industry for a few years. As long as they don't have problems, they're great, but it only takes one to spoil it aka Three Mile Isalnd.
We do need them but as Judd says, conservationist won't let us build anymore. Also they are the same folks who won't let us drill our own oil. What's up with that? We still have a lot of oil in our own soil, but we can't get to it cuz of our "green folks." We can get it anytime, but we have to keep the 300,000 Caribou up in Alaska safe(?) Hey they seem to enjoy the heat from the pipeline.

There is no solution to keep everybody happy, but one must be found in order to keep up with our energy needs.

[Tote]

I am of the opinion that most "Green" people I meet are more bark than they are bite.

I live my life in a manner that is consistant with my ideals.  Support the local markets, I have cfls, I drive little (but I do own an SUV, it is necesarry for my "lifestyle")

I will say this, I think solar has the biggest potential of all.  I could not imagine purchasing a house and not haveing a full solar array on the roof. 

Sierra Nevada, the company I work for, will be completely off the grid in a couple of years, and as it stands we generate well over 50% of our electricity that we use, using fuel cells (run with waste gas from our water treatment plant) and solar arrays.  Once we complete the rooftop solar arrays we will be off the grid.

If every home had solar, consumer electrical needs would be met.

I expect prices and efficiency of solar to improve rapidly.

MolBasser

Does this mean my Sierra Nevada beer will be less expensive?????

[MolBasser]

The unfortunate reality is that all beer is going to cost more in the next few years, although we don't have plans to raise prices.

Sam Adams is on record saying they are raising their prices.

A world wide hop shortage and barley prices going through the roof due to stupid corn growing for ethanol.....

Your going to see a lot of small breweries go out of business in the next couple of years.

MolBasser

[jwsmith]

I don't understand how come bikes (motorcycles) don't get better gas mileage.

Back in the early 70's I had a (carburated) Yamaha 650 that got....ohhh....ballpark 50-mpg.    I put 12K miles on it before I sold it.

A year-and-a-half ago gasoline was nearly $4/gallon and I started poking around the bike shops thinking that maybe I'd get me another bike......well........they don't get any better gas mileage today with cdi, computers & injectors than they did back in the 70's.

If my 2,025-pound Toyota Corolla will get 38mpg out on the hwy....shouldn't a 500 pound motorcycle, with a little good engineering and modern components, get 60-70 mpg?    Can the poor "airfoil" of a motorcycle be responsible for ALL THAT inefficiency????

Judd

[scwafish]

Moochy-go ALL green...these Vectrix scooters are 100% electric.

[ganoderma]

If you don't want an electric bike for some reason, here is a chart of Motorcycle gas mileage:

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/index.htm

[jwsmith]

That MPG calculator that Gandoderma posted is neat.
Looks like BMW "has it".

jw

[Mooch]

Moochy-go ALL green...these Vectrix scooters are 100% electric.

Yeah Sean, I checked out the Vectrix at the San Mateo Motorcycle show last month. THat thing does not make a sound at all - super stealth....and SUPER COST

I'm pretty much decided with the Piagio. I plan on supporting local business and will see if I can get a decent deal with a San Mateo dealer.

[scwafish]

The Vectrix is unique in its range and topspeed.  11k is high...isn't that what this thread is all about?

[polepole]

Moochy-go ALL green...these Vectrix scooters are 100% electric.

I don't think "100% electric" always equates to "ALL green" ... it all depends on how that electricity is generated.

-Allen

[Mooch]

11k is high...isn't that what this thread is all about?

Very true, but If I had 11k, I might be better off putting that money down on a Toyota Hybrid car

[Zee]

I plan on supporting local business and will see if I can get a decent deal with a San Mateo dealer.

Sounds like you're already decided but if you're really down w/ local this company is in Santa Rosa.

http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-scooters/zapino-electric-scooter

Z

[Dale L]

The Vectrix is unique in its range and topspeed.  11k is high...isn't that what this thread is all about?

So Sean mentions that $$ are what started this thread.  

I have always been an idealist in theory, but as I get older I realize that (unfortunately) cost is what matters to the majority of the people on earth whether that be out of necessity or greed (a natural born human trait??).

I do allot of stuff to meet my green values but still also make decisions on just plain cost as well.  

The change (for most) to "greener" ways of doing things (all things) will accelerate

when the cost of not being green is close to or greater than green.  

For me the key is to use less.   Of course this will need to be accompanied by new sources of renewable energy, IE solar, wind, etc. but still, we will all need to learn to use less or be forced ($$$) into it by our own actions.

BTW saw a TV piece interviewing farmers who can't afford to buy corn to feed their livestock because so much of it's being used to make ethanol.  Just in case anyone thought turning foodstuffs into motor fuels was a wise thing......

[MolBasser]

Corn to ethanol is the stupidest idea going.

It is an example of a powerful washington lobby pulling the wool over everyones eyes and just plain poor science.

We all are going to pay for this folly.

BrewBasser

[polepole]

Corn to ethanol is the stupidest idea going.

It is an example of a powerful washington lobby pulling the wool over everyones eyes and just plain poor science.

BrewBasser

Mol, why is it stupid.  It may have started out that way, but there are analysis on both sides stating that it costs more (or less) energy to produce it than the fuel it is replacing.  I'm not going to take a side here, rather I like to look at this as technology in progression.  We'll get it right sooner or later ...

I find this article a good discussion ... http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/ethanol.html

Ignore the actual results of the article, rather focus in on the discussions of alternatives and factors that go into these analysis.  Also, it makes a good statement about corn based biofuels as being a stepping stone to other biofuel sources that have greater benefits.

-Allen