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Topic: High or Low angle paddling?  (Read 1788 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • Location: Valley Ford
  • Date Registered: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 469
Hey everyone. I am currently waiting on a new yak. Ive been a Hobie owner for a couple years now and I really don't know how to paddle. My new yak is traditional not pedal. Ive been researching how to paddle and have been practicing on my Revo. I have found it a little difficult to paddle with a high angle stroke mainly due to my rod holder placement. When I do remove the holder it is much better but obviously I tire easily. I know my technique is bad which is probably the major factor there. My question is, what do other paddlers prefer and why? I know the low angle is better or easier for longer distances, but I for some reason want to have high angle stroke. I don't really know why other than I don't know what im doing. I need to buy a paddle and I want to buy one that fits my stroke. Anyways, I was hoping some of you could chime in and educate me a bit and share your opinions
A jerk at one end of the line waiting for a jerk at the other end.


Eddie

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Marin
  • Date Registered: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 9198
Paddle power, if you are this guy...the posture I hold is pretending i have a pilates ball sitting under my arms and hold that posture.  When I get tired, my form gets lazy and a subtle slouch will make my paddling sloppy so I have to breathe and get back in sync with the strongest, least energy expended posture, that my body knows...I'm not sure this helps, I'm 5'7-8 and I wield a 240cm paddle.  I weigh 170+- and my seat is garden style, is that the right term?  Kraken...sometimes if I'm having to really focus I adjust my seat to more upright.  I use a carbon fiber bending branches paddle.   :smt006
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
John 21:3

Stealth Pro Fisha 475
Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


  • Location: Valley Ford
  • Date Registered: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 469
Nice Eddie thanks for the tips. I will give that a go next time Im out. I have definitely noticed a huge difference when focus on rotating and using my core versus using my arms. Im thinking of a Werner paddle but Im all ears
A jerk at one end of the line waiting for a jerk at the other end.


JohnnyAb

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • FISH IN THE SEA,LIVE IN THE WOODS,WORK AT BEACH
  • Location: The Ville
  • Date Registered: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 1424
The most common answer will be, "It's how you prefer to paddle." 
When I was blessed with my Trident 4.7 Ultra, the previous owner included a beautiful carbon fiber paddle.  He preferred a slender paddle to support his wide shallow stroke. 
This is not my preference.  I demoed a paddle at Kayak Connection in Santa Cruz Harbor, a Werner, that was longer and had a wider blade, meant for a deeper more vertical stroke. 
I knew immediately this was better for me.  Thankfully they included the rental price towards my new paddle and I've been happy ever since. 
I've also seen too many different weight/height to length of paddle/type of kayak combinations to believe there is a magic formula when it comes to finding the right length. 
Find a compassionate shop that lets you test gear, or some friends with different paddle types.  I have faith you'll figure out what "YOU PREFER"
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking”     -J.C. Watts

“we are a community that is committed to each other, the health of our waters, and the sport we all love"
-Scurvy


Eddie

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Marin
  • Date Registered: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 9198
Nice Eddie thanks for the tips. I will give that a go next time Im out. I have definitely noticed a huge difference when focus on rotating and using my core versus using my arms. Im thinking of a Werner paddle but Im all ears
When I start to use my arms in know I'm tired...I believe the core is stronger than the legs for propulsion over time.  After you train your stroke as core centric then you adjust your angle for the dig into the water, you may create that simultaneously as you go if you focus.  That may determine your length need...heavy or light paddle doesn't matter more than stroke but heavy paddle and light paddle are day and night...
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
John 21:3

Stealth Pro Fisha 475
Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


Eddie

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Marin
  • Date Registered: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 9198
After reading JohnnyAb's post I'm not sure if I'm shallow type or vertical...I use both strokes depending on need...or preference for conditions...
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
John 21:3

Stealth Pro Fisha 475
Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


KPD

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: San Mateo
  • Date Registered: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 1873
A real revelation for me was how much you can use your legs while paddling a kayak. Last summer on a cheap sit on top rental I was able to feel the connection of slightly straightening the leg on the side that was pulling with the paddle, pivoting the hips. It made me want to try paddling a real surf ski, but I always get distracted by fishing so that hasn’t happened yet.


JohnnyAb

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • FISH IN THE SEA,LIVE IN THE WOODS,WORK AT BEACH
  • Location: The Ville
  • Date Registered: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 1424
After reading JohnnyAb's post I'm not sure if I'm shallow type or vertical...I use both strokes depending on need...or preference for conditions...

I completely understand. 
Trolling, for example, I use a shorter, shallower stroke than normal.
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking”     -J.C. Watts

“we are a community that is committed to each other, the health of our waters, and the sport we all love"
-Scurvy


pmmpete

  • Salmon
  • ***
  • Location: Missoula, Montana
  • Date Registered: Jun 2015
  • Posts: 598
In a kayak with no gear mounted on it which interferes with your paddle stroke, here's what you should be doing: Hold your paddle fairly close to your lap with your hands a little more than shoulder length apart, and with your arms in a fairly straight position. Keep your arms fairly straight and swing and rotate your arms and shoulders from side to side as a unit with each stroke.  Use the muscles in the core of your body to power the paddle as much as you can, not your arm muscles.   Don't grip the paddle tightly; your hands should be relaxed, and your wrists should stay straight.  Keep the paddle low in your lap.  Paddle with an easy relaxed motion, and just keep the kayak gliding forward with a minimum of effort. Drop the paddle blade into the water as far forward as you can comfortably reach by rotating your upper body, and lift the paddle out of the water as it passes behind your body; this is the area in which you get the most forward propulsion out of a paddle stroke.  This is a paddle stroke which you can maintain all day, day after day, once you get into shape.  I've done a bunch of 1-2 week whitewater kayak trips, and this is the kind of stroke I use to keep moving down the river.

Here's what you shouldn't be doing: Don't pull back your elbow with every forward stroke in a "bicycle pedaling" motion; you'll tire your arm muscles, and may develop tennis elbow.  Don't bend your wrist down with every stroke; it requires unnecessary additional effort and you'll develop tendinitis in your wrist. Don't squeeze the paddle tightly; you'll develop carpel tunnel problems or numbness in your hands. Don't keep pulling on the paddle when it's behind your body; you'll be mostly lifting water behind your body, not pulling your kayak forward. Don't paddle as hard as you can; a kayak has a maximum hull speed, and as you approach that speed, you have to expend a lot of additional effort for every fraction of a mile per hour in speed.  It's much more efficient to keep the kayak gliding along at a bit below maximum speed.  Save your maximum effort for moments of great need, such as when you're coming in through surf and are trying to stay ahead of a breaker, or when you're trying to get out of the way of an oncoming and oblivious motorboat.

When paddling a kayak, your paddle and arms will swing across a large portion of your kayak with every normal stroke, and across a larger portion of your kayak when doing some maneuvers such as sweep strokes.  You need to mount any rod holders, fish finder, and other gear where it won't interfere at all with performing any reasonably anticipated paddle strokes, and where you won't bash your paddle, knuckles, or elbows into the gear in a moment of inattention or desperation. You absolutely must have an unimpeded paddle stroke, even if that means that you need to lean way forward to grab your rod out of its rod holder, or to operate your fish finder. Depending on the design of your kayak, you may need to mount gear towards the centerline of your kayak and in front of your feet, where it's inconvenient to get at but won't interfere with your paddle stroke.

Edit: The Paddling 101 video in the next post is excellent, and I agree with everything the guy says about paddle strokes.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 07:13:07 AM by pmmpete »


FishingAddict

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Fremont
  • Date Registered: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 5088
2018 Hobie Revolution 13 Cheeesy Orange Papaya
2019 Hobie Revolution 11 Seagrass Green


FishingAddict

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Fremont
  • Date Registered: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 5088
2018 Hobie Revolution 13 Cheeesy Orange Papaya
2019 Hobie Revolution 11 Seagrass Green


  • Location: Valley Ford
  • Date Registered: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 469
This is a lot of really great advice. Thanks guys. That's a some detailed how to Pete. I really appreciate it. Ill try to practice those tips. I already have messed up wrists from skating my whole life. I also never thought to ask to try out a paddle. I live in Petaluma and the people at Claveys seem very helpful and nice. I checked out Dan at Headwaters videos. They are awesome and very informative. Thanks a lot guys, you all kick ass. Giving me a lot to work with here
A jerk at one end of the line waiting for a jerk at the other end.


Medson

  • Sand Dab
  • **
  • Location: Alameda
  • Date Registered: Jul 2018
  • Posts: 74
For what it's worth, after experimenting with different rod holders on my trident 13, I've found that using a rocket launcher style rod holder avoids interference with my paddle stroke.


FishingAddict

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Fremont
  • Date Registered: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 5088
I am in the market for a new paddle.  I do a lot of surf launches on my Revo 13.  My old Werner Camano won't snap in place anymore.  After contacting Werner customer service my cost will be; $40 shipping to Werner + $52 repair cost + $30 return shipping. Werner does not sell spare parts.  The hook inside the female ferrule that holds the 2 pieces together broke.

I am eyeing the Werner Shuna to get more power on every stroke, mainly to clear the surf zone. 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 11:25:33 AM by FishingAddict »
2018 Hobie Revolution 13 Cheeesy Orange Papaya
2019 Hobie Revolution 11 Seagrass Green


COWBRO

  • Salmon
  • ***
  • Location: Dixon, CA
  • Date Registered: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 146
My $.02 on this one. Make sure you get a paddle that is long enough. I am 6'2" and was sold a 230cm with my 30" wide Moken14. i always felt like i should have had a 240 or 250 paddle, but i didn't know any better at the time. Instead of getting a new paddle i upgraded to a Mirage drive Outback. lol.

Other note is, figure out a rod holder that will work for paddling, possibly two quick mounts, one for paddling and one for fishing.