How to avoid tangles on halibut bouncer-flasher rig?

Hey all. Currently I've been trying out the typical bounce ball and flasher+hoochie rig for butts, but get tangled way too often. What length do you have to your weight, and what length to the flasher, and length to the hoochie/bait? Still trying to figure out a way to minimize tangles.

Just my experience, but I find flashers and hoochies to always get tangled for me. Unlike a PB, kayaks have a lot of speed changes and sharp direction changes. I use a simple 18” line to the weight and about a 4’ leader to a single hook w/ stinger. And high quality stainless bb swivels. I also prefer the elegance of simple setups so this may not be optimal, per se. It works well for me though. Oh, I rarely go over 6oz. Prefer the ball to skim the bottom rather than get stuck in the mud.

Make sure you’re moving forward while deploying the rig and send it down slowly. I use a small spreader bar and only 12” leader to the sinker. Leader to the dodger is like 3ft then a short 18” leader to the hoochie. But I normally forgoe the dodger/hoochie and use a 4ft leader with a trap rig (barrel swivel a foot above the bait with a bead & hoochie). 40lb flouro will minimize tangles too.

I go braid to a Luhr Jensen Medium Trolling Spreader (sometimes a 3-way swivel, but not lately and if you're looking to reduce twists and tangles, I would definitely consider the spreader).

Long leg of the spreader to a bead-chain swivel, then 24"-30" to my flasher. Below the flasher, I experiment with anything from 12" to 24" to a sliding snell and trap treble.

Per the excellent post from ThreemoneyJ here: http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=67133.0
I use 50lb mono on everything below the flasher. This absolutely helps reduce twists and tangles.

On the short leg of the spreader, usually 12"-18" of 10lb or 12lb mono to my sinker.

Even in Tomales, where the wind, surface, and undercurrent often seem like they are going in 3 different directions, this has been a pretty reliable setup.

What kind of swivels are you using? I use these and I think they help with tangles:

https://www.amazon.com/P-Line-High-Speed-Roller-Swivel/dp/B073RFXMTJ

Fluorocarbon line will tangle less, but I've been using P-line CXX mono and haven't gotten tangled much.

You can also ditch the flasher and never get a tangle.  Some guys swear by the flasher but imo it doesn't make much of a difference for me in the bay.  A big fat shiny herring with no flasher will get it done.

https://www.amazon.com/P-Line-High-Speed-Roller-Swivel/dp/B073RFXMTJ

+1

I use to have this problem all the time.  The tangle is mostly caused because the weight of the dodger/flasher/terminal tackle at rest or slower speed and the lines are intertwined.  So here is my fix (works for me anyway):

1. Make sure you are moving when you deploy the rig.
2. Make sure you have at least 12" between the dodger/flasher from the main line.  I use about 24".
3. Make sure you have at least 12" between the dodger/flasher to the leader/terminal tackle.  I use about 24".
4. Make sure you have at least 12" between the weight and the main line.  Again, I use at least 24".  Sometimes I use 36" or more, especially when its weedy.
5. Make sure you have a swivel for the attachment to the dodger/flasher.



Its all about the angles and weight.  The closer the lines are together, the higher chance of tangle.  The spreader is basically ensuring that you have plenty of distance between your main line split and the next device/tackle.

Using heavy 60# leader keeps it straight while trolling. Also make sure you lower your rig slowly

This is what I use in the Monterey Bay. Braid (50# or 65#) on the main line, a plastic slider thing, bead, and a high quality ball bearing swivel (slider thing is not necessary, but can help with snags). About 4' leader to the dodger, and about 15" leader on the hootchie, and a short leader (8" max) to a 10 ounce sinker. The leaders to the the dodger and hootchie are 30# mono/fluoro/hybrid, while the leader to the sinker is 20#. Personally, I wouldn't go over 30# for anything you might have to break off.

You want to be sure that the setup is not too long for the rod you are using, or you'll have trouble landing a bigger fish. The rod in the picture is only 7', and I usually use 8', so this one is borderline.

As others have said, you need to be moving as you lower the rig. But IMHO tangles (and effectiveness) are primarily a function of the dodger. I've had the best luck with Gibbs #3. It's a little heavier than most, and makes a nice wide side-to-side movement at kayak trolling speed, while staying close to the bottom, which is where you want to be.

This is what I use in the Monterey Bay. Braid (50# or 65#) on the main line, a plastic slider thing, bead, and a high quality ball bearing swivel (slider thing is not necessary, but can help with snags). About 4' leader to the dodger, and about 15" leader on the hootchie, and a short leader (8" max) to a 10 ounce sinker. The leaders to the the dodger and hootchie are 30# mono/fluoro/hybrid, while the leader to the sinker is 20#. Personally, I wouldn't go over 30# for anything you might have to break off.

You want to be sure that the setup is not too long for the rod you are using, or you'll have trouble landing a bigger fish. The rod in the picture is only 7', and I usually use 8', so this one is borderline.

As others have said, you need to be moving as you lower the rig. But IMHO tangles (and effectiveness) are primarily a function of the dodger. I've had the best luck with Gibbs #3. It's a little heavier than most, and makes a nice wide side-to-side movement at kayak trolling speed, while staying close to the bottom, which is where you want to be.

Thanks, I think the issue is I have too much line going to my sinker, I see you keep it pretty short. Will try your setup this weekend!
Cheers

Make sure you’re moving forward while deploying the rig and send it down slowly. I use a small spreader bar and only 12” leader to the sinker. Leader to the dodger is like 3ft then a short 18” leader to the hoochie. But I normally forgoe the dodger/hoochie and use a 4ft leader with a trap rig (barrel swivel a foot above the bait with a bead & hoochie). 40lb flouro will minimize tangles too.

Yeah will def try thicker mono next time. I actually tried doing the entire rig with braid which was a terrible idea 

I find my rig will tangle if I come up a steep incline so I watch my depth and reel in a bit when water gets more shallow.  If my weight starts dragging as opposed to light bouncing I will check my rig. 

Don't use a three way swivel, having the sinker leader on a slider (swivel) with a bead is much better.

A bead swivel between the dodger and the bait makes a difference in keeping the leader from getting twisted and tangling on itself.

 

Lower the rig while moving and never ever stop moving.   +1 on heavier mono from main line swivel to dodger- when you forget and stop moving tangles will be easier to undo (that's when you realize you've been dragging a tangle because you stopped moving).  If you keep moving, I don't think the kind of swivel matters too much.  Did I mention you've got to keep moving?

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but for a bounce ball setup with a flasher or dodger you might want to try more weight. The more vertical you keep your main line, the less likely you are to wrap your terminal end around your weight dropper (or vice versa).