Dealing with the Limekiln ranger

The problems with the state park ranger at Limekiln are well known. I'd like to discuss how to handle the situation.

First off, I feel the best thing to do is abide by all park rules. Take special care to be a courteous park user. Dispose of all trash properly, keep the noise down, etc. Hopefully at some point he will change his opinion of us.

Speaking of trash, fileted fish should be placed in the garbage. At the other lower Big Sur launch sites, put it in the trash if available. Otherwise, toss your fish back into the water. Please don' t leave fish carcasses to rot where the public will find them.

Now back to that ranger and his enforcement of Fish and Game laws. Game wardens may search anyone observed to be fishing or hunting at any time (the practice may be unconstitutional, but may not have been tested in court). State park rangers are peace officers, but they do not have the same powers as a game warden as far as my attorney friend Bill Hokstad is aware. Bill is an avid angler who has researched many points of law as it relates to fishing.

If the ranger approaches you and asks to search your kayak, you may politely but firmly state your objection. You do not have to agree to be searched. Of course, the ranger will likely search you anyway. If he then cites you, you may have grounds for dismissal based on an illegal search. Bill's standard advice is to never consent to a search.

I won't pretend that there aren't consequences that would follow refusal. I expect that would irritate the ranger even further, causing him to continue to hassle kayak anglers. Please abide by all fish and game regulations, that way you no reason to fear a search. That said, last weekend a kayak angler released a just over legal ling because he didn't want the hassle he felt he was sure to get from the ranger measuring multiple times. Could be he would have received a ticket even though he was in the right.

advice is to never consent to a search.

I did not have a choice...he had his hand on his tazer gun when he came up to me  

All joking aside, I understand that he is only doing his job.....but I believe it was more of his attitude that was pissing everyone off. It seemed that he may have had problems with kayak fishermen in the past - which is not likely - in my opinion at least....or maybe he might just have been born with a power trip....or maybe he attended too many Home Land Security meetings  

I'd just go when the weather is nice and use one of the other launches.  When I scoped out limekiln it seemed like parking was kind of far from the launch anyway.

First off, I feel the best thing to do is abide by all park rules. Take special care to be a courteous park user. Dispose of all trash properly, keep the noise down, etc. Hopefully at some point he will change his opinion of us.

Speaking of trash, fileted fish should be placed in the garbage.

PAL, I agree.... and despite the size our last group (9 of us), I thought we were considerate.

At the end of the day, after he thoroughly checked my license and fish, I asked the Limekiln ranger how many other kayak fishermen he'd encountered so far this year.  He told  me only about a half dozen.  He said we were the biggest group he'd ever seen.

I thought we did a good job of protecting the reputation of kayak fisherman that day.

Hey all-
I'm not trying to rain on anyone party, so this is all to be taken as a bit of advice, so that we can preserve our kayaking launch rites down there.
I have a had a few discussions with this particular ranger, and he doesn't have it out for all kayakfishermen, but they have had some serious problems with kayakfishermen in the past.
Pal provided some excellent tips, but there is one more that I thought worthy of mention. Don't show up in huge groups. Limekiln is a small area and parking is limited, especially in day use. If you guys feel it necessary to trail down there in more than 3 vehicles, drop off your boats and park up on the road. The rangers have specifically stated that they don't like it when large groups of kayakfishermen show up down there. You used to be able to trailer zodiacs and aluminums out on the beach. We're not allowed to do this now because too many people brought there boats down. We wouldn't want to be prohibited from kayaking down there anymore, and I could see this happening if big groups continue to show up, wake people up in the morning, and clog the day use. I have maintained a good working relationship with the park service down there, and they are more than supportive of my business. Anyhow, they get stoked everytime I show up with my trips down there, and I'd like to maintain this relationship.
Keep on fishing the area. Its the best fishing on the coast! Just be as respectful as possible to the rangers and paying campers.

and I could see this happening if big groups continue to show up, wake people up in the morning, and clog the day use.

So if we were paying campers who kayak fish - would we be treated differently?

Don't show up in huge groups

Is there a law that states that a big group of  kayak fishermen are not allowed? We did pay the fee to access the beach - just like everyone else.

I still don't understand why the ranger was being rude to begin with. He can still do his job and be nice - that's all I'm saying.

I agree with being respectful and all that.

But what good is "day use" if you are recommending we don't "use" it in large  groups.  If a large group of hikers showed up, would that be bad?  Or a large group of beachcombers?  You get the picture.

-Allen

Ranger X had an attitude problem with just about everybody I seen him speak to.  He was a complete prick to an elderly lady who asked to use the campground restroom while the day use one was being cleaned.  He told her no, which was probably just a rule he was adhering to, and proceeded to talk down to her when she asked why not.  I seen him talking down to another guy for accidentally turning left toward the campground when he was looking for the day use parking.  Seen another guy get a reaming for not putting the orange cone back when driving over the bridge to his campsite and another for parking in the wrong spot.  I understand he has a job to do but he doesn't have to be an a-hole about it. People are gonna make mistakes but thats no reason to treat them like a child who needs a scolding.

I also have a problem with him trying to enforce F&G regulations.  It seems to me that a person should know the regs before playing warden.  He didn't know the size limit on lings (and may have even been using last years reg book)  I'd hate to get cited (or into an argument) because he wasn't trained properly, up to date on regs, or because he can't tell the difference between a ling and a cabbie.

Brendan, I understand you have to maintain a positive working relationship with the rangers there and I respect your opinion but I disagree.  I'm not a hardass but I don't like the fact that we're being bullied by a prejudice ranger.  This is just a messed up situation, I wouldn't want to limit access for you're business or anyone else's personal use but what about our rights?  Where do we draw the line?

above post was me

I understand all of your concerns, and will thoroughly agree that this is a very messed up situation.  We are dealing with one asshole of a ranger who doesn't like kayakfishermen, or people in general. The long haired one has been there for years, and the one with the gun was moved in after vandals and rowdy partiers continually trashed the space. We are also dealing with a tiny campsite and day use that receives heavy traffic throughout the summer season.  Its a small area, and can't handle more than 5 day use vehicles. Its first come first served by the rule book, but anytime a huge group of kayakfishermen have showed up, the rangers get kinda pissed, and I always hear about it when I go back down there.
I'm not so much concerned about my business access. I usually choose not to go out of Limekiln in search of better fishing grounds with launches involving less hassle. I have 6 spots tucked away down there that have all served pretty well. But what I am concerned about is losing the spot to all kayak access. What I would recommend is that for now everyone follow the rule to the t (especially not arriving there before 8 am), and if you feel so inclined, file a formal complaint with the states park service. I have a feeling that if enough people do this, the rangers will eventually get a reprimand, and will have to shapen there attitude up a little bit.
Not all the rangers in Big Sur are like this. In fact, most of them are quite accomodating, and I've chilled by the campfire on a few occasions drinkin rum and swapping stories with them.

I have maintained a good working relationship with the park service down there, and they are more than supportive of my business. Anyhow, they get stoked everytime I show up with my trips down there, and I'd like to maintain this relationship.

Don't show up in huge groups. Limekiln is a small area and parking is limited, especially in day use.

Brendan, what's the biggest group you've taken out on your guided trips?

6 people. And I don't launch out of Limekiln when I do a trip that size. In fact, I avoid Limekiln unless I know the wind is gonna be blowing a bit harder. If you're going to do a trip with a larger group, I'd recommend launching  out of either Willow or Mill Creek. Free ample parking, and less of a haul for your boats.

 If you pay the fee, abide by the letter and spirit of the law, then there is no reason to be concerned about overzealous game enforcement or a dippity park ranger.  

I think "abiding by the letter and spirit of the law" is where the problems start.  This guy was highly confrontational in body language, vernacular and voice tone and has a hardline perception of the rules.  He has definitely turned a public service job into a personal crusade.  Honestly, I can see this guy using something like driving 6 mph in a 5mph zone as a rallying cry to close the park to kayaks(not that we were driving 6mph).

Limekiln has an, um,  colorful past with some less than delightful incidents sprinkled in going way back.
Management of the place was farmed out to a company that provided management services to the parks facilities at a considerable profit some years back..and i think that's still the case. For a while, at least, the staff were not "real" rangers. The cost jumped and the place was run like they owned it and were offended at the interlopers.
If the guy is obnoxious, get his name and badge # and let his bosses know...often. They wiggle when the public complains..sometimes.
They know that if they have problems and call for backup...that backup will arrive in time to write up a report....so some of them tend to over react under the pressure.
That place has been run by some real characters over the years.
It seems the parks dept has spent all their money on administration and aquisitions and pretending they are cops. Being an old time forest ranger is pretty much forgotten, in this area ,at least.

I don't agree with Brendan about not visiting the park as a day-user. There is room for maybe 8 cars. Each car pays the day use fee (unless you have a state parks pass). The state gets the same amount of cash whether a kayak angler or hiker parks in day use. Also, that day use fee means you can stay until day use hours are over. We have as much right to those day use spots as anyone else. First come, first served. Trekking a loaded yak all the way from the highway turnout and up and down that steep driveway is not going to happen, particularly since they are still likely to ask for their day use fee.