Round Panel Discussion - Rule Revisions

Gentlemen,

If we are holding this derby for the restoration of salmon and trout, then the wholesale slaughter of fish for prizes seems counter-intuitive.

May I suggest we start a thread on rule revisions for the next one? In the very least we can bring some topics to light and prevent arguments in the future. This is our tourney and we should do all we can to preserve and promote it.

The main issue that I would like to promote is "Catch & Release". I believe that in its very essence, fishing derbies are detrimental to our sport. The argument that all fish would be eaten is not a "vaild" reason among those who wish to close our fising grounds. If everyone was required to release all fish taken, then little could be said that this fishing derby negatively impacts our fishing grounds.

How would this be done - I don't know, but I think it could be possible. With a "Catch & Release" rule, many gamefish would be open, thus making our derby more interesting and exciting. Maybe we could have teams targeting different species measure, photo & record each catch on the water? This would promote fishing together, eliminate any chance of cheating and would be safer for all participants.

Let's get some ideas together and have a fun derby!

In San Diego, the Plastic Navy puts on some very successful bay bass tourneys that are all catch and release.  They are run very well and work fine.

Issues that would be faced up here are boundaries.  In SD the tourneys were in bays and there were multiple weigh boats that would be able to weigh your fish and release them.  Everyone had an operational live well or similar method (non-stringer) to keep their fish untill weighed.

With larger species such as halibut up here, this is an untenable situation.  How do you get the fish weighed?  What would the boundaries.  How would you keep large fish (WSB, Salmon, Halibut) alive untill weighed and released?

What it boils down to in my mind, is scouts honor self weighing of fish.  With a public contest and a prize worth almost 1 thousand dollars this is not a viable option.

MolBasser

I think it'd hurt participation if you had to release the fish.  Not many people are interested in releasing halibut or especially salmon.  Some may cheat and keep the fish anyway, opening a whole new rule-breaking/bending can of worms.  Catching, netting, measuring and weighing these large fish well enough to qualify would also probably kill them anyway.  

C&R makes sense for a trophy largemouth bass fishery where everyone wants the fish to be as large as possible, but out in the ocean where we have to share the resource with party boats and trawlers I think we shouldn't be too concerned about our impact.  Most of us fish every weekend possible anyway, in fact fewer fish will die next weekend because we'll all be fishing for relatively ellusive halibut rather than rockfish down south or shooting lings up north.   Santa cruz is also in general the most fished out place I've ever wetted a line IMO...

I totally agree with PS.  There's no way I'm releasing a big halibut or salmon ...

Why are tournaments any more detrimental to our sport than a day a Limekiln?  Just because there is a tourney doesn't meam that I'm going to catch and keep (or release) any more fish that any other day I'm out fishing.

Now if it's the "visibility" of the tourney that you are worried about, those that wish to close our fishing grounds just need to come here and take a look at our pics.  I'm not sure a derby makes any difference.

-Allen

I guess catch n release would be problematic, especially since our fishing area is so wide spread and that people would like to see the fish "hang" to take home 1st prize.
I was trying to open it up a bit and get more interesting species in the winner's group, and try to calm people's fears of fish waste.

So let's talk about rules:

Rules:
1. Fishermen are required to start from shore, paddle out to the fishing grounds, and back.
2. Must comply with the State Department of Fish and Game laws.
3. Must sign a liability release
4. Must weigh in at Shamrock Charters before 1pm.

Can we get specific?
1) What area, when is the start time?
2) Evidently, this "rule" is open to personal interpretation. Can we vote or at least list what species are permissable?

Here's a partial list, please add to it and your comments

Halibut
Salmon
Stripers
White Sea Bass
Bat Rays
Leopard Sharks
Guitar Fish
Smooth Hounds
Perch
Kingfish

Once we get a complete list, then maybe we can hold a poll? This is a HOT topic, lets get some participation.

The sponsors said someone coming in with a bat ray or guitarfish would be laughed off the premesis, so I guess there's the answer.

Yes, They may be laughed off the premises, but they would be taking a brand new kayak with them.

MolBasser

if we release all that we catch, what are we going to grill up afterwards?

not only am i not releasing any legal halibut or salmon,  but the mortality rate for a salmon released after it had been netted, handled, and them weighed before it was ever so gently released would be somewhere around ZERO.

pierre

Likewise... with Halibut... Netting them often splits their tails and they often wind up getting "tail rot" which eventually leads to their demise.

I'm not nockin anyone who thinks otherwise but if I caught a keeper salmon, butt, wsb or striper, its going home with me, same as it would be on a non derby fishing day.  I don't "kill" everything I catch but I don't see anything wrong with taking home table fare.  I like the fact that there's discussion to clarify the rules but IMO, the bat ray/shark issue is blown way out of proportion.  Traditionaly for boat anglers, kingfish/rays/sharks(blues,leopards/sand) have been viewed as bycatch and returned to the sea to steal a bait another day.  I'm not saying they shouldn't be targeted, aren't fun to catch or descriminating against anyone who eats them but come on, we can all target the "popular" species for one day and fish for the sake of fishing and not just to win a new kayak.  

I hope someone nails a barndoor butt so there's no fuss or hard feelings.  God forbid there's a skunk and everyone fights to weigh in their sabiki caught anchovies.

It is all very easy to deal with.

Simply make the entry and rules clear to what you want.

MolBasser

It is all very easy to deal with.

Simply make the entry and rules clear to what you want.

MolBasser

Jeez Mol,

How many times you gonna post this?  I'm sure everyone agrees that it would be better if KC spelled out the rules.  They don't.  

This derby has been running for a few years and it is a great time, despite this limitation you love to point out.  

How about you fish it once, get a feel for the group that turns out to this event, how it is organized (or not organized) and then comment provide your feedback on how to improve it?  

Kevin

Its difficult to get tone of "voice" across on the net.....

I AM fishing it.

I don't care what the rules are.

I will not target rays.

People keep bringing up the other side of the argument, so I just trot out my side again also.

I knew my position would sound like being a jerk, when all I am doing is pointing out the obvious.

I just want to have fun, and sounds like that is the prevailing attitude.

Let's just fish, drink beer, enjoy each other's company, and maybe win a kayak.


Just so I don't annoy anybody anymore I will recuse myself from this discussion untill we can be face to face so you (and I) can see that we are all just good guys that like to fish.

MolBasser

I think in the first or second tourney the rule was "fish between the cement ship and the lighthouse."  That was quickly changed due to grumbling.  Fish where you can launch and be at Shamrocks BEFORE 1:00.  The farther away you fish the more time you will spend driving and less time fishing - there's your tradeoff.  If I could add a rule it would be:  "If you bring it, we all get to watch you eat your fill"   mmm  50 LB bunghole fish sure looks tasty.