NCKA rite of passage

Hydro-

(and everyone.....to clarify)

The 10-post reg was installed to keep someone from creating an account just to try and sell something on our classifieds board. Basically a spam filter.

Members Only Hookup and Reports needs 10 posts as well to access.  If you want to keep your report or hookup within our registered group, you can. The lurkers will not have access.  And, there are a LOT of lurkers.

When mods or admins see pad-posts, we remove them and pm the sender saying "that's not cool."  We don't get every one of the padders, because frankly, we have lives and do not monitor the board 100% of the time and 100% of the posts.

We also rely on members to alert us when such posts occur. Mods are pretty responsive, I can't remember more than a day or two going by when a moderation report wasn't addressed by one or the other of us.  If you see obvious post padding and it's not fixed in a day or two, then by all means, report it and we'll take care of it.

Great topic, fundamental and deadly serious.  Anyone who disagrees with mandatory pfd and ability to self-rescue is an idiot.  The objections I see on this thread really relate to making it a "RULE."

"Why do some find this so repulsive?  Then dump the 10 posts."

'Repulsive' is your word....Unnecessary is mine.  Remember you proposed making it a RULE, not whether it's important or not. Yes it's important.  No we're not going to make it a RULE that people have to prove their capabilities in any fashion to participate on the board. The board is open and available to anyone, even if they don't kayak or fish.

Why?  Because it's unnecessary, and IMO, contradictory to the ethos of NCKA. We operate more on a "group conscience" basis than we do a "rules and regulations" basis. C'mon you've been around long enough to know that....Governance factor is based largely on the cultural morés, one of which is "Operate with as few rules as possible."

For me, one of the most attractive and delightful charms of the NCKA community is the freewheeling aspect, wherein a large group of truly diverse individuals cohere around a shared love and passion. 

In my 64 years on earth, and with my involvement in NCKA even before there WAS an NCKA, I have found this nowhere else, almost, and I treasure it.  Kick back, let it go.  Relax, go fishing.  Everyone agrees self rescue is fundamentally important.  And there's really no arguing about making it a regulation.  Why?  Because I won't do it.

~Bouché~


PS Not locking the thread........yet.

Thanks Bushy,
I appreciate your, and the majorities, perspective on this.

I hope that I did not write something that made folks feel that I was upset with their counterpoints.
There were some strong statements but Im not bothered by any of them.
I didn't look at this as a oppressive rule (and still don't)  but a helpful solution.

Is there a reason the thread might be locked?

 

 Thanks Bushy!

Thanks Bushy,
I appreciate your, and the majorities, perspective on this.

I hope that I did not write something that made folks feel that I was upset with their counterpoints.
There were some strong statements but Im not bothered by any of them.
I didn't look at is as a oppressive rule (and still don't)  but a helpful solution.

Is there a reason the thread might be locked?

You are welcome.  Locking?  Only if it gets too ridiculous.

Bushy

PS Not locking the thread........yet.

The PS had me thinking that the thread was at risk for being locked.

 I really want to think about your statements Bushy, and get back to you. I agree with a lot of it.
Its very ideal state and feels good to read. Im just not sure how effective it is with the continued examples of members out on the water and that continue to be out there without working on this skill. Ill roll it around in my brain.
Thanks again

 

I think the requirement should be to sit on top and attempt to paddle a 6 foot lifetime kayak without a PFD on.

Involuntary self-rescue pics for approval. From that time I tried to paddle under Cap wharf during mixed swell...pics courtesy of Salty. Although they're kind of blurry and mouth might've been open (aoty joke).
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32246.0;attach=97673

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32246.0;attach=97675

I think the requirement should be to sit on top and attempt to paddle a 6 foot lifetime kayak without a PFD on.

I'n in. Woohoo!!!!!!

Ok how about this analogy...a 12 step program , where the only requirement is the desire to stop whatever is your drug of choice ..if a member has difficulty or has slips or chooses not to be clean and/ or sober right away.... they aren't kicked out of the group or not allowed " membership "  they aren't required the posting photos of being clean and sober before joining ..they are encouraged to keep coming back until they get "it" ...in NCKAs' case maybe Saftey is the "it".


Just my .02

Thanks , Vic

If you guys want to lock the thread, I'm happy to start posting my unfettered opinions. 


The funny thing is, those who I regularly see practicing self rescue are those who probably need the practice the least.

This is a good topic.  If nothing else it raises awareness of the need to practice the fundamentals.  Also, as a community of kayakers it is appropriate to instill this belief in our newer members.  I'm not a guide, nor a founding member, but i didn't go on the ocean before Hydrospider gave me the basics on how to self rescue.   I practiced before I went anywhere where exposure could be an issue.  i.e.- winter paddling and the ocean.  I won't go into more extreme situations with folks who don't know how.  Untrained paddlers are a liability to not only their safety, but mine as well.

Aaron

I am for not making rules to burden people who don't need them and people who do will spend twice as much effort to avoid them as they will to follow them. But if we did make any they should be thus

1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT KAYAK CLUB.
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT KAYAK CLUB.

3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or goes limp, taps out the fight fishing is over.

4th RULE: Only two guys to a fight kayak.

5th RULE: One fight kayak at a time.

6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes.

7th RULE: Fights Fishing will go on as long as they have to.

8th RULE: If this is your first night at FIGHT KAYAK CLUB, you HAVE to fight fish .

Im glad that Pompano120 commented on this thread. I remembered a post that had a similar impact after reading it last summer.
Pompano120,
 Your comments here show that you might have changed your stance on the importance or learning self rescue.

From 06/14/2015

"Been fishing last year and this year mostly down Big Sur rough swell and condition but never thought about self rescue. So I finally took it out this past Sunday at and did 5 attempts. side entry was surprising easy but rear was not. I could not get on board and i was poop after several failed attempts. nothing can substitute practice and time in the water that's for sure. my 2 other buddies that fish with me are knuckle heads. they don't listen to me about self rescue. none of them have any self rescue practice. I preach to them many times that big sur is not a place they want to practice but like always they shrug me off. the only thing I could do is NOT go fishing with them."

What changed?

It was again the first sentence. "Been fishing last year and this year mostly down Big Sur rough swell and condition but never thought about self rescue."

Let me explain a little bit about that post. it dangerous down there and yes it's always good to know self-rescue. I tried it first attempt made it so I don't think much about it. my friends a different story but most, if not all the time when my group capsized it is usually during landing when it happens close to shore where you can just get up and walk out. I still think self rescue is something everyone needs to learn but not a requirement for membership. It's more like an extra layer of knowledge if one presented itself.

fyi, 1 of the person is no longer fishing because of a life threatening newbie mistake encounter he faced while on one of my trips. He is kicked from all my trips because of not wanting to learn self rescue but more importantly not following directions. hate to do that to a friend but it's for the good.

conclusion.... self entry is very good to know but not mandatory requirement for membership.

 Bushy,
 You do a great job of preserving the true spirit of the club and this community.
Tons of respect and Im glad we are friends.
Im aware that its not always easy to be patient with my topics and views.

You've made it clear that the club won't support an ability based safety check and I do understand the reasons why.
Still, I have a strong suspicion that this club is under skilled.
I tried to spark a change that would encourage skill development. 

 When tournaments started requiring proof of self rescue, was there a noticeable drop in attendance?




 

Many people use this site as a resource for activities that don't require self-rescue.  Self rescue checks should be left-out of the picture until self-rescue is even remotely required.

I support self-rescue checks for tournament attendance, and encourage people to "require" self-rescue skills to participate in open water hook-ups. 

Just don't fish with people that can't self rescue, or who don't bring the necessary gear.  Or, offer to teach these skills to people you want to fish with who don't know.  Summer is perfect for this.