We don't want to take your guns...read H.R. 4269

Like they say, you pack your fears.

I still pack a bilge pump OTW, even though I've never used it, wear a PFD but have never dumped - yet, bring a whistle, wear a seatbelt etc. etc.

so what is the difference?

Are you havin a laff?

Just because people have died with seatbelts on doesn't mean we shouldn't wear seatbelts.

Just because some people will never in their lives be in a car accident doesn't mean we shouldn't wear seatbelts.

And just because you said something demonstrably wrong doesn't mean you can point the finger somewhere else and make up some new incorrect argument. 

Are you havin a laff?

Just because people have died with seatbelts on doesn't mean we shouldn't wear seatbelts.

Just because some people will never in their lives be in a car accident doesn't mean we shouldn't wear seatbelts.

And just because you said something demonstrably wrong doesn't mean you can point the finger somewhere else and make up some new incorrect argument. 

please simplify to a multiple choice answer

The argument that you are safer with a gun in your home just doesn't hold true. If an intruder has a gun pointed at them, they are going to react in a genetically dictated, VERY well understood, and WIDELY accepted manner. They are going to display a "fight or flight" reaction. If they happen to have a gun, too, they're probably going to fire it at you.

This is why data and statistics clearly show that your chances of getting shot go UP, not down, if you own a gun.

It is also human nature to feel that we are above statistics. We all feel like we're the outliers who will come out on top. WE are the ones who are actually going to follow through on our New Years resolutions. WE are the ones who are going to get the first shot off in a conflict. WE will persevere in situations that statistically don't work out in our favor.

You can't all be outliers. It just doesn't work that way.

Holy God Almighty...I was at least able to tolerate your opinion until this....Yoy are full o shhhhhhhh....

I love the argument "drugs are illegal people still get them" as if the act of making something illegal has no effect. If that's the case there shouldn't be any laws at all because people still break them. As for a Second Amendment  right to bear arms is there a limit? I think an AR with a 50 round clip compares more to a hand grenade in destructive power than a hunting rifle. A rocket launcher is an arm right? Handgun deaths are tragic but when you start having groups of 20-30 people killed at a time because someone had an AR and a bad day it might be time to rethink things. 

Damn ..I leave to go to work and it's escalated I thought "we" were toning down and agreed to disagree .... Can't leave you guys alone for a few hours ...

good one VK!
what a thread, I was definitely out gunned on this one but it was fun to play with the big boys a little.
thx guys - for the second time LOL

Oh fuck. Here too?

I forgot to add. 
ZOMBIES!
We need guns to kill them as well.

Thanks for the good laugh. Glad to see things never change on NCKA.

The argument that you are safer with a gun in your home just doesn't hold true. If an intruder has a gun pointed at them, they are going to react in a genetically dictated, VERY well understood, and WIDELY accepted manner. They are going to display a "fight or flight" reaction. If they happen to have a gun, too, they're probably going to fire it at you.

This is why data and statistics clearly show that your chances of getting shot go UP, not down, if you own a gun.

It is also human nature to feel that we are above statistics. We all feel like we're the outliers who will come out on top. WE are the ones who are actually going to follow through on our New Years resolutions. WE are the ones who are going to get the first shot off in a conflict. WE will persevere in situations that statistically don't work out in our favor.

You can't all be outliers. It just doesn't work that way.

Holy God Almighty...I was at least able to tolerate your opinion until this....Yoy are full o shhhhhhhh....

Thoughtful response. Thank you.

Found this from 2009. Answers my question from earier. If you want to keep guns from criminals, lock them up! I really find the 6% statistic interesting...

To illustrate the BS level in the government we are looking to ban guns yet we have Civilian Marksmanship Program....But then again we have a surgeon general and health and human services board that rails against junk food but majority of public schools have vending machines loaded with soda and candy

Novofish.

U crackin me up!
Lol

Are you havin a laff?

Just because people have died with seatbelts on doesn't mean we shouldn't wear seatbelts.

Just because some people will never in their lives be in a car accident doesn't mean we shouldn't wear seatbelts.

And just because you said something demonstrably wrong doesn't mean you can point the finger somewhere else and make up some new incorrect argument.

I am having a great time. Thank you for asking. No fishing with RCG and crab season closed. So instead of reading fishing reports, I am reading this thread.

From your link http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/88-fallacy-of-division:

Description: Inferring that something is true of one or more of the parts from the fact that it is true of the whole.

That would apply to my argument if I had written:

Crash's hypothesis: America with its arms will use violent means to take his property once it runs out of resources.
Crash is an American.
Crash is armed.
Therefore Crash will use violent means to take other American's property once he run out of resources.

America is an organization which Crash belongs, but what is true of America is not necessarily true of Crash. Hence the fallacy of division.

But I wrote:

Crash's hypothesis: Americans with arms will use violent means to take his property once they run out of resources.
Crash is an American.
Crash is armed.
Therefore Crash will use violent means to take other American's property once he run out of resources.

From your link:

Exception: When a part of the whole has a property that, by definition, causes the part to take on that property.

Crash is an American, and by definition he takes on properties of Americans. So the fallacy of division does not apply. So unless I committed some other logical fallacy, my argument is still valid.

You had me until the bolded.  There are plenty of people who love this country who want to remove the guns from most of the citizenry.  There is nothing inherently unpatriotic about that.  In fact, I think trying to change the system via the established legal processes and by constitutional amendment are perhaps the most patriotic actions a citizen can take.  They go through the trouble to change what they don't like precisely because they love this country.

Love it or Leave it is just plain wrong headed.

We agree on this point.

I wonder if SCOTUS were to overruled Heller in the future, or if the 2nd amendment was repealed, how many passionate gun owners would actually turn in their guns during a buy back. Or would they simply ignore the change? My guess is you would fight that change through the courts, but what if they ruled against you? I am just trying to figure out if your passionate defense of gun ownership rights is based on the 2nd amendment or you do believe it is a God given right.