Rockfish rig question?

What's the easiest way to tie a rock fish rig with 2 hooks?  I'm thinking they are typically a 3' leader with a dropper loop in the middle and a hook at the bottom.  The middle hook is attached via short leader to the dropper.  Does this sound right?

Any advice or links to diagrams is appreciated.

Kevin

Kevin,

All the party boats use a rockcod shrimp fly that has yellow & red (maybe it is org) but has plastic strings that look like the strands of a broom.  Forgot the name of this rig.  But, usually comes in a 2 to 3 or 3 to 4 hook setup.  It depends on the pound test and hook size.  You could just cut the rig in half to get your two hooks.  Maybe have to add some leader line for the weight.  I would tip it with squid.

But, a cheap rig is a 4 or 5 oz. torpedo with 2 ft of leader (30 lb test) before the hook w/squid on the hook.  Hit bottom and crank up a few feet.

Ken kickfish

Kevin, I would just put three loops in via surgeons loop.

the one at the bottom is for a weight (8oz ball), the other two are for hooks.

J

Go with a couple dropper loops and direct tie a torpedo on bottom, other knots will create a huge weakspots and break under load (you'll notice it when snag and the rig breaks at the knot.)   

I think it also depends what RF you are going for, and how deep.  For ~ 100 FOW or less, I like a dropper loop for a shrimp fly and a big lure below for lings/cabs/big RF.  I use a 30lb leader about 5 feet long, tie a dropper loop about halfway down, and then at the bottom, a nice big 7" swimbait w/3-6 oz jig head, or diamond bar w/ 5/0 siwash hook.

If you haven't tied anything on yet, you can make the dropper loop by making a ~ 2 1/2" diameter loop halfway down the leader, and keep weaving one end of the line in and out of the loop, about 10 times.  Find the midway point of the weaves and pull the opposite end of the big loop through that middle weave hole, tightening from (now) all 3 ends.  Before you tighten it all the way, make sure you have a loop big enough to pull the entire shrimp fly (or whatever lure you have your dropper loop holding) through.  I tie the bottom lure on to the slightly shorter end (but I don't think which end matters that much, really).

I think the traditional deeper-water RF rig has 2 dropper loops and a torpedo or cannonball weight at the bottom.

There's a nifty way to add a dropper loop onto a leader you already have rigged, but I can't remember it.  The party boat deckhands do it in about 10 seconds with their eyes closed.

Here is a decent page describing many knots, including the standard dropper loop:

http://www.floridaconservation.org/fishing/knots/index.html

FYI - I've gone away from this particular knot, as I don't like it's resultant strength when tied in 20 lb leaders, and have gone to the Spider Hitch.

I also now tie all my own leaders. Certainly not saving any $$, but each one is individually tested,made from known materials, with known knots, all lubricated before being tightened down.

Regards,
Scott

easier to purchase shrimp fly rigs. If you are in the san jose area, fishery supply on story road has them for about $1.50 each. They also have the new ones made by P-line which uses rubber squids instead of the feathers. They also sell loose shrimpflies for about 2 buccs, if you really want to tie your own. I would recommend at least 30lb test if you are tieing your own.

Good lucc...

I really like this website right here:
http://www.animatedknots.com/dropperloop/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com#

I usually tie a dropper loop about 18 inches above a megabiat iron or swimbait/leadhead. I make the dropper loop tag/loop about 4inches and attach the hook directly to the tag/loop.
However, the most important tool for tying this knot, especially on open seas, is a small stick. I use the stick for twisting (between STEPS 3 and 4).
I first started using a regular stick...but now I have a "special" stick. It is 2 inches long, about 1/4 inch in diameter, and has an angled slit in the middle. I cut the slit in it to make the knot even easier to tie. After twisting 8 times, I pull the loop through the hole by inserting the loop into the slit (see STEPS 9 and 10 and this will make more sense).

I discovered this knot and technique while shorefishing for rockfish. (However, I will make the loop much smaller to avoid snags--like 2 inches.) But the special stick is even more helpful while in a kayak because it is very hard to tie knots on the ocean without getting seasick.

There are many people who say the dropper loop isn't a good knot and they advocate a similar knot that is supposedly stronger. But I have to say that, when tied properly, this dropper loop is awesome! I have reduced my snag-to-break ratio dramatically since I started using this knot. I hardly ever break off now (while shorefishing) and I am casting directly into the kelp and rocks...gnarly spots.

My favorite setup from the yak is 25lb mono with a 4-inch dropper loop (remember, 8 twists) about 20 inches above a 4oz leadhead with a 6-inch curly tail grub or fish trap. I use 6/0 octopus gamikatsu hooks (or circle hooks if the blues are thick).

Good luck,
PK

Thanks for the all the info.  I'm going to try tying a dropper with diamond jig at the bottom.  Just need to get out before the season closes...

Kevin,
 
Try the Spider Hitch.  Better than the Dropper Loop.  Learn that down in San Diego pulling on the 100 lbs Grouphers.  The best not is the Bimini (but hard to tie), then the Double San Diego Knot, San Diego Knot (single), Uni-knot and the Spider Hitch.  Spider Hitch is just a loop of double line and then you feed the tag end into the loop 4 to 6 times.

Problem with the Bimini and San Diego Knot you need something solid to pull on.

Ken kickfish

Are you guys tying the loop on the bight?  Or are you tying a big loop and cutting the loop to a short tag end and a long one?

I'm guess with the "dropper loop", you're tying it on the bight.  I don't like loops on the bight.  Here's why.    One end is at at 90 degrees to how the knot was intended to be used.  Think about a dropper loop.  The line running to the bottom is inline with the knot and the loops is at 90 degrees.    With a surgeons loop, the line running to the bottom is at 90 degrees and the line to the loop is inline.  I think whichever end it at 90 degree is weaker.

So ... I tie a big loop and cut to a short and long end.  If I'm sitting around the night before and have time, I'll tie a bimini.  If I'm on the water, that'll never happen.  It's usually a surgeons loop, but after seeing the spider hitch, I think that's easier to tie so I'll be trying that.

-Allen

Yeah Allen.

Got a 140 lb. yellowfin tuna on 60 lb test on the Spider.  Took me 45 mins to land it.  3 times around the boat.  If you tie the spider hitch tie the hook with a double uni or Double San Diego.  If one side breaks off you still have the other one to work with.

Also, if you are after big fish.  Use a Bic lighter to make a bubble on the tag end.  That may be all that kepts the knot from un-tieing it self.  If you tied a bad knot. Also, good if using crimps.

Ken kickfish

I tried cutting the dropper loop so that I'd have a long tag end going to a fly, and a shorter tag end going nowhere. Pull testing revealed failure well below line strength.I believed the failure mode was the short tag end slipping, and tied a figure 8 in it as a stopper. This seemed to improve the strength slightly.

I then went to the Spider hitch dropper, again cutting the loop to leave a long tag end. This was significantly better than the plain dropper loop, but still not great. Leaving the spider hitch loop fully intact resulted in failure very close to line strength.  I either attach the hook directly to the "Spider Dropper" using a girth hitch with multiple loops around the shank of the hook, or make the smallest "Spider Dropper" possible, and then girth hitch on a separate leader. Girth hitches are certainly not the strongest connection, but  since they are on doubled sections of line, the failures have always been at other points.

Regards,
Scott

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing.  Well, at least I'm confused by using the long tag end and not the short.  What I'm talking about is using the short loop tag end to go to the fly.  The long tag end goes to the sinker/iron.  The actual non-loop tag end of the knot is not used.

-Allen

We're definitely not talking about the same thing then.  I'm taking a 5-6 foot long piece of leader material, and putting a dropper in the middle of it. The two original ends are used, The top gets a double surgeon loop, and depending on usage, the bottom get's a a loop, or is clinched to a lightweight snap (the idea being that the snap opens, releasing the sinker, before the leader breaks.)

Sort of like this:


Scott