Fish finder needed???

+1 for marking the crab pots!
The more  I use it the more I like it.
In the fog... Oh yea

+1 for marking the crab pots!
The more  I use it the more I like it.
In the fog... Oh yea

Now if you could only cruise over the pot & tell if it was full of crabs!

If you do a lot of trolling for macks, trout and salmon then a combo FF/GPS is essential gear for reading structure, marking bait, and controlling speed, especially when trolling in ocean current and wind.

Now I narrowed it down to elite 4 hdi or chirp.  As posted earlier the hdi is on sale at cabellas. And the chirp is about 50-60 bucks more.  😳

I would consider other brands.  But it's soo much different models I'll get confused. 

As I understand it, CHIRP provides a better image that standard HDI. Considering the size of the Elite 4 screen, I wonder how much "better" the image would be with a CHIRP unit versus HDI (I imagine it wouldn't be a dramatic improvement). Compared to, say, an Elite 5 with larger screen--where the difference between CHIRP and HDI might be more significant. This is pure speculation, but it makes sense.
Since they all use the same transducer, I would suggest getting the Elite 4 HDI. Then if you want to upgrade next year, you can simply swap out the head unit for an Elite 5 CHIRP.

As I understand it, CHIRP provides a better image that standard HDI. Considering the size of the Elite 4 screen, I wonder how much "better" the image would be with a CHIRP unit versus HDI (I imagine it wouldn't be a dramatic improvement). Compared to, say, an Elite 5 with larger screen--where the difference between CHIRP and HDI might be more significant. This is pure speculation, but it makes sense.
Since they all use the same transducer, I would suggest getting the Elite 4 HDI. Then if you want to upgrade next year, you can simply swap out the head unit for an Elite 5 CHIRP.

The difference, even on the 4 of HDI vs. CHIRP will be noticeable.  I don't know if I would go as far as to say DRAMATIC but it IS better.  You will have far less (to no) "shaddow" or "clutter" around the fish marks on CHIRP vs. HDI.  You will notice a difference in the 4 vs. the 5 as well because of pixel count.  You are correct, the HDI models and CHIRP models use the same transducer and the Elite 4 & Elite 5 head units use the same mounting bracket & power cable.  It makes the 4 & 5 (HDI & CHIRP), basically interchangeable with each other.

One other thought regarding how well you see the difference:  Water depth.  I had never really paid THAT much attention to pixel count & how it plays a very KEY role with seeing targets at varying depths.  You figure the number of vertical pixels ... horizontal isn't nearly as important ... factor in the depth.  If a "target" (fish) is smaller in deeper water, the # of vertical pixels is can be displayed on are far less than the same fish in much shallower water.  It's all about ratio.  Say the fish is 12" tall like, maybe a WSB ... the ratio of say 120' of water vs. that 12" talk fish ... same fish in 40' of water, the fish would be displayed in far better detail because of the available# of pixels in which to show the feedback.  With this in mind ... going from an elite 4 to an elite 5 is a HUGE difference in picture quality despite the minimal difference in screen size.  The % of screen size is greater too but the diagonal size is minimally different: 4.3" vs 5".  It's all a matter of numbers.................... 

Now I narrowed it down to elite 4 hdi or chirp.  As posted earlier the hdi is on sale at cabellas. And the chirp is about 50-60 bucks more.  😳

I would consider other brands.  But it's soo much different models I'll get confused.

If you decide to get one from Cabelas, make sure you go the catalog route as Jerry noted. The price listed online is the same for the DSI and CHIRP versions of the Elite 4 right now - $299. I upgraded up from a crummy older Humminbird to an Elite 4 and it's like night and day. Really amazing technology.

As I understand it, CHIRP provides a better image that standard HDI. Considering the size of the Elite 4 screen, I wonder how much "better" the image would be with a CHIRP unit versus HDI (I imagine it wouldn't be a dramatic improvement). Compared to, say, an Elite 5 with larger screen--where the difference between CHIRP and HDI might be more significant. This is pure speculation, but it makes sense.
Since they all use the same transducer, I would suggest getting the Elite 4 HDI. Then if you want to upgrade next year, you can simply swap out the head unit for an Elite 5 CHIRP.

The difference, even on the 4 of HDI vs. CHIRP will be noticeable.  I don't know if I would go as far as to say DRAMATIC but it IS better.  You will have far less (to no) "shaddow" or "clutter" around the fish marks on CHIRP vs. HDI.  You will notice a difference in the 4 vs. the 5 as well because of pixel count.  You are correct, the HDI models and CHIRP models use the same transducer and the Elite 4 & Elite 5 head units use the same mounting bracket & power cable.  It makes the 4 & 5 (HDI & CHIRP), basically interchangeable with each other.

One other thought regarding how well you see the difference:  Water depth.  I had never really paid THAT much attention to pixel count & how it plays a very KEY role with seeing targets at varying depths.  You figure the number of vertical pixels ... horizontal isn't nearly as important ... factor in the depth.  If a "target" (fish) is smaller in deeper water, the # of vertical pixels is can be displayed on are far less than the same fish in much shallower water.  It's all about ratio.  Say the fish is 12" tall like, maybe a WSB ... the ratio of say 120' of water vs. that 12" talk fish ... same fish in 40' of water, the fish would be displayed in far better detail because of the available# of pixels in which to show the feedback.  With this in mind ... going from an elite 4 to an elite 5 is a HUGE difference in picture quality despite the minimal difference in screen size.  The % of screen size is greater too but the diagonal size is minimally different: 4.3" vs 5".  It's all a matter of numbers.................... 

I read a tutorial on YouTube about changing the settings to overlay the Down Scan and Sonar on one single screen rather than having each imaging system split top/bottom the way I've seen most anglers use it. I tried it and ended up preferring it in the overlay so I tend to use it that way and then scroll to the GPS as needed. In that case though, there's really no advantage to having the added horizontal pixels of the Elite 5 since the both the 4 and 5 have the same number of vertical pixels, correct ? Sorry if that was confusing.

You might have busted me.  The very pixels might be the same.  I'm not worthy .... I'm not worthy.  Lol.

A fish finder can be a fantastic tool or it can put you out of touch with the big picture and your surroundings.

It's kind of a double edge sword. You will see fish everywhere sometimes. That electronic gizmo can easily turn you into a "smart phone" zombie with tunnel vision. You will waste time on said "fish" that turn out to be a thermocline, bait fish, suspended weeds, algae, untargeted species, neutral or turned off fish etc. It can result in a lot of wasted effort if you're stopping to fish nearly everything you see. That is part of the learning curve though. You can waste an entire day on the water if you only get captivated by the screen/buttons and miss the clues that are visible around you.

I've been kayaking for a little over 4 years and other than a few trips for trout trolling or suspended winter crappie, I go without and I've watched my old water reading skills return. Headland or point? Think rocks. What's the bank angle? Tells you where to troll for a certain depth. What's the bank material made of?  To me this is one of the more important aspects for targeting certain species. If I'm looking for crappie, bluegill, catfish or (most times) LMB I want to see more clay and smaller/mixed material. Obviously, wood or brush would be a plus too. Rocks or cobble with "fresher" looking water is what I want when targeting SMB. Deeper water that somewhat relates to offshore/shore structure, Spotted bass. Water color and clarity? Indication of depth, nutrient level and whether to target warm water or cold water species in a fresh water impoundment. Minnows flashing or skipping along the surface or diving birds hanging around the kayak - sounds good to me. I also like to work the shady/faster breaking banks. To me they are sometimes a key feature, especially in the summer season. Windy banks or flats can yield nice fish even in bright conditions. Nobody is usually fishing next to you because most fisherman automatically head for the calm side of the lake.

None of the above will come from a quad-frequency, side scan, ultrasonic doppler auto-PRF latest-and-greatest FF. It is an outstanding tool but it is not a replacement for good water observation skills. By the way, to me an old school flasher unit can be the ultimate weapon in shallower water fresh/salt applications  because of the ability to read bottom material and more importantly THE CHANGE in bottom material as you move along. With practice and the right gain settings, you will be able to determine what exactly the bottom material is made of. You can see the change from mud, to clay, to sand and rock. Some of the more modern full screen units (non-flasher) can actually trash or limit your abilities in this regard.

I'm not anti-tech. I own two flashers and one full screen. They definitely have there place in certain applications. Like any technology, they can be a time saver or time waster depending on how they are used. And I'm sure I've passed over some potential honey holes while going without the FF in the boat. At the same time, I feel strongly that having and working the right lure in the right areas using water observing skills will maximize my presentation time to the targeted fish without getting side-tracked by all the blips on the screen.  Plus I'm too lazy to permanently install a FF in my boat.... 

Great info Mistral.  I try to read the water every time I fish. May or may not be precise but they are signs. I probably need 10 more years to be good at it.

Looks like there are 2 different features in the elite 4 chirp. One has navtronics???

http://www.cabelas.com/product/LOWRANCE-ELITE-CHIRP-COMBO/1938674.uts?productVariantId=4064291&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=39-17026058-2&WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=04075640&rid=20


http://www.cabelas.com/product/LOWRANCE-ELITE-CHIRP-US-CAN-NAV/1937649.uts?productVariantId=4039463&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=38-18370633-2&WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=04052804&rid=20

The 'Gold' package will include an extra chip (micro sd card) that has enhanced maps.  You can save yourself a little money & buy a better chip later.  The Gold is good.  I prefer the Lowrance Insight PRO.  Sells for $100.  Navionics also makes a variety of chips that work well in it too.

Bll,

Do you know if the 1 link elite 4 for 299. comes standard with a map at all?

The Elite units have a basemap built in.  The 'Gold' includes a (special version) Navionics Gold chart chip.  I say "special edition" because, unlike a regular Navionics Gold chip which can be updated/upgraded for a small fee as new map updates are released, the version of the Navionics Gold chip that is included with the Lowrance 'Gold' packages does not qualify for specials/promotions/upgrades that Navionics offers.  Little confusing, I know.  Its a Navionics, but not Navionics.

To answer your questions though, yes ... there are basemaps.  Extra chart chips, that can always be bought & added later, will enhance map detail, add better/more detailed contour lines and a host of other bits of detail depending on the end users needs.  Some offer photographic images, harbor/port info, services, etc.....

You might have busted me.  The very pixels might be the same.  I'm not worthy .... I'm not worthy.  Lol.

Ha ha. No worries, I've become so enamored with the Elite 4 that I've sadly kinda geeked out on it. Yeah, both the 4 and 5 have the same number of vertical pixels (480) but the 5 has nearly half again as many horizontal pixels. While the extra pixels on the 5 don't add to the relative sensitivity at greater depths, it does make it a hell of a lot easier to read both outputs when you have the sonar and downscan split side by side on the screen. I saw the Elite 5 for $291 and thought about upgrading but the added screen size isn't worth it. I'll hold off and upgrade to a CHIRP model down the line. Either way, I'm incredibly happy with the 4. Great product.

They have an Elite 9 coming out this year