A moment on the ride home that was just So right.

This isn't about what I do.  It's about my observations of very noticeable differences in behavior between car drivers and bike riders.  What I do or don't do does not change those observations.
Speaking of hand signals, what are those?  Seriously, I'd think <10% of riders use them.  It's not about a handful of what you believe to be reasonable exceptions.  It's about what I perceive as commonly practiced regardless of situation.

-Allen

You're saying bikes must stop at all stop signs, regardless of the context. I think your actions in the same situation are relevant.

Cyclists behave differently because a bike is not a car, no matter what the law says. Bikes physically cannot be expected to ride identically to the way cars drive because they weigh 30 pounds and are run by human power.

Personally I think the rules should be adjusted accordingly.

just a side note..I worked for Sonoma County Dept. of Transportation and Public Works Roads Div. for 20 years (retired)...you would be surprised how much of your tax dollars ARE NOT delegated for roads...the system (unless it`s changed) bases the amount per county for road maintenance/repair/construction is not based on road miles ,but on registered vehicles in that particular county..most funds get "redirected" to a general fund  unless designated for a project  i.e. FEMA for storm damage, 101 upgrades (state funding).....at the county level...good luck...

   

30 Years Ago: President Ronald Reagan Visits DOT Headquarters: The Fight for a Gas Tax Increase

The country is in a recession with an unemployment rate as high as 10 percent! Highway and bridge needs far exceed highway user tax revenue! The President opposes a gas tax increase! Sounds familiar, but the year was 1982 and the solution was the Surface Transportation Assistance Act of 1982.

      Yeah,,,  I remember the promise that tax revenue money  was only to be used for our roads...   Political Hooey.   

   
   Re: bike riders.     They don't get much appreciation when riding side by side,  chatting with each other when traffic is backed up behind them.
 
 I'm all for creating more bike lanes, but it seems the existing lanes are in dire  need of maintenance.  it seems like most of the bike lanes are overgrown  or littered with debris forcing the rider closer to that white divider line.   
   

This isn't about what I do.  It's about my observations of very noticeable differences in behavior between car drivers and bike riders.  What I do or don't do does not change those observations.
Speaking of hand signals, what are those?  Seriously, I'd think <10% of riders use them.  It's not about a handful of what you believe to be reasonable exceptions.  It's about what I perceive as commonly practiced regardless of situation.

-Allen

You're saying bikes must stop at all stop signs, regardless of the context. I think your actions in the same situation are relevant.

Cyclists behave differently because a bike is not a car, no matter what the law says. Bikes physically cannot be expected to ride identically to the way cars drive because they weigh 30 pounds and are run by human power.

Personally I think the rules should be adjusted accordingly.

I'm saying that a large percentage of bikers ignore the stop signs.  I'll even support you in your belief that there are some situation where it is not safe to completely follow the law regarding hand signs, and I'll reserve passing judgement on those situation so as to get off my high horse.     But the other 99% of the time, there is just no justification in ignoring the laws.

BTW, I think I do stop at a stop sign 90% of the time, the other 10% being california stops, and I never intentionally just run one.  I think bikes just don't stop 90% of the time, with it is not even coming close to a california stop, and for a large portion of those they are just blowing through.  It's not black and white, but your shade of grey is darker than mine.

-Allen

Shades of gray become darker the more you ride 
But seriously, I don't blow stop signs and I don't run reds, even after stopping first...oh, unless the intersection isn't equipped to detect a bicycle and I sit through 2 or 3 light cycles without getting my green.

Shades of gray become darker the more you ride 
But seriously, I don't blow stop signs and I don't run reds, even after stopping first...oh, unless the intersection isn't equipped to detect a bicycle and I sit through 2 or 3 light cycles without getting my green.

You're a 1 percenter then!

And yeah, I know about the stop light detection issue.  BTDT having ridden motorcycles for years.

BTW, it's been refreshing to see the attitude towards motorcycle white liners change over the years.  These days it is more common for a car to get out of the way vs. 15 years ago in which is was more common for a car to pinch you off.

-Allen

Late to this thread, I mountain bike on paved trails mainly. I ride a motorcycle on the road. I feel its crazy for bikes to ride where there is no shoulder and speed limits over 35mph. Thats my personal thought about riding on HWY 1 and 116. Not trying to out road biking but I need to get a OHV sticker for my quad and dirt bikes, I need to have my boat registered. What about some accountability and some ID for any bike that wants to ride on the RD. I need to pay fees to hunt, boat, park, ect why not register all road bike and have some ID plate or some visible way ID who is riding.

Not trying to out road biking but I need to get a OHV sticker for my quad and dirt bikes, I need to have my boat registered. What about some accountability and some ID for any bike that wants to ride on the RD. I need to pay fees to hunt, boat, park, ect why not register all road bike and have some ID plate or some visible way ID who is riding.

Again, this opens a big gate to tax all sorts of activities that are currently free. Kayaking, hiking, mountain biking on trails shared with hikers. Beach access, harbor access via kayak. Do AIs require registration? Maybe they should? The list goes on. I'm thankful there are free alternatives to cars and motorboats.

I thought most of us were generally opposed to more regulation.

When you register your bike with the Police (Nat'l Bike Registry), what happens to the money?

I've never been threatened or lost any significant time in my travels by a bike running a stop sign or light. 

Why does the behavior of cyclists at stop signs have anything to do with anything?  This has degenerated into a who sucks more shitshow.

To recap:  some bicyclists get in the way of cars on roads where both are allowed to operate their respective vehicles. Much butthurt ensued.

Why does the behavior of cyclists at stop signs have anything to do with anything?  This has degenerated into a who sucks more shitshow.

To recap:  some bicyclists get in the way of cars on roads where both are allowed to operate their respective vehicles. Much butthurt ensued.

Yup pretty much.  Don't get angry and share the road.

Not trying to out road biking but I need to get a OHV sticker for my quad and dirt bikes, I need to have my boat registered. What about some accountability and some ID for any bike that wants to ride on the RD. I need to pay fees to hunt, boat, park, ect why not register all road bike and have some ID plate or some visible way ID who is riding.

Again, this opens a big gate to tax all sorts of activities that are currently free. Kayaking, hiking, mountain biking on trails shared with hikers. Beach access, harbor access via kayak. Do AIs require registration? Maybe they should? The list goes on. I'm thankful there are free alternatives to cars and motorboats.

I thought most of us were generally opposed to more regulation.

Folks are only opposed to regulating things they do. 

You are absolutely right. Bikes are like kayaks. I would think, rather than disparaging and complaining about cyclists, that it would be encouraged as a way to decrease congestion, combat the abysmal health condition of your average American, and generally promote getting outside. Cyclists shouldn't pay any extra fees or licensing IMO because one of the incentives of switching to bike for commuting and such is that it costs nothing but the purchase of the bike. The reduction to congestion and parking more than makes up for any loss in fees.

Allen- when I lived in SoCal I rarely saw people pinch lane sharing riders, it's just so common and accepted that most folks don't give it a second thought. Up here not so much. People are still under the misguided assumptions that it's more dangerous (it's actually much less than sitting in traffic) because it appears to them from inside a cage as reckless. Good to hear the attitude changing in your area, hopefully it will up here as well.

 Again I feel any transportation that rides or takes up the highway space should have visible Identification on it.  A small fee to have every bike that wants to ride on the HWY is not that big of a deal. Really nothing public is free and Regulations are a pain, I agree but are necessary to protect and maintain. Registration of bikes that ride on the road would ensure equal accountability on the road. This started out as Autos venting how road bikes take up and slow down the roadways. This is just my opinion on ways to help deal with the road bikes with out "outlawing" them from roads with no shoulders or harassing then as we go by.
No AI's do not require registration as they do not use a outboard, that is law. The rules of the road are only followed by ….cars,trucks, & motorcycles. Road bikes do not follow all the rules of the road yet we "share". Easy example of road bikes not following rules of the road is posted speed limits. I have yet to see a road bike keep up with the posted mph signage the whole time.
 

No AI's do not require registration as they do not use a outboard, that is law.

The DMV states that "Nonmotorized sailboats that are eight feet or less in length" do not need registration. An AI is longer than 8 feet last I checked. I don't see why they shouldn't have to be registered. Be careful what you wish for.

Its not a sail boat …. hehhe. its a sail kayak  .