Swamped Kayak Rescue Sessions - Stevens Creek Reservoir/HMB

Pumps are useful up to a certain point, but if a boat is swamped in moderate swells I'm not sure it would be of much help.

I agree. One of the reasons SOT (except some of the new fishing skis) are not as sea worthy as seaa kayaks is the lack of bulk heads. Witha sea kayak, odds of the entire boat filling with water are negligible. But with and SOT, its almost guaranteed. Plus the water has a lot more room to slosh around inside increasing instability in waves. This is why opening hatches on the water is strongly cautioned against even for sea kayaks let alone SOTs. Sea kayak expedition books recommend filling space ununsed by cargo with inflated qand emply dry bags. I have two WildWasser inflatable floats, specifically deigned to fit into recreational sea kayak (the kind without bulkheads) in bow and stern. We'll see how they do but I am sure even they are a poor compromise.

John Lull, Sea kayaking safety and Rscue: "The importance of buoyancy cannot be overemphasized. A swamped kayak will sink without it. Flotation must be present in both ends of teh boator, if swampled, one end of the kayak will sink leaving thr bow or stern sticking straight straight out of the water...make rescue very awkward, if not impossible. Many of the so-called recreation akayks do not have adequate floatation. Such baots are not safe unless fitted with bow and stern airbags."

John again:"A sit-on-top kayak is often touted as a safer option tothe closed-deck kayak.It is also sometimes described as a kayak for the beginner. Although there is some truth in both statements, they are more misleading and dangerous than truthful. Using a sit-on-top kayak does not mean you can get by with little or no training or knowledge...the main advantage of a sit-on-top kayak is the ease of self-rescue."

But John is not even considering opening hatches on the water--so he does not address what to do with an SOT full of water. We need to find out what, if anything practical, can be done and waht are the limits of rescue in such situations. I expect tehm to be very soberng indeed. One of the reasons I am interested inteh new line of bulkhead-equiped fishing skis.

IMHO emulating open ocean conditions really isn't remotely possible without swell. Swell practically describes the environment.

I agree here too. We should practice and cme up with rescues and handlign lmits at SCR and then, I recommend we take ti to Coyote Point or HMB Harbor in a stiff afternoon breeeze--in both palces we will have calm shore close by for safety, but some swell, seas, and wind. There are a lot of beaches we could use as well, but most of the good uncrowded ones are remote (like Doran Park at Bodega Bay).

When these boats fill they start behaving like a waterlogged tree-trunk, they weight so much you can hardy move or turn the damn things. Add Newtonian Motion to the equation and things get dicey real quick. "Swell" was the magic extra added dimension that made my sinking so dramatic. On flat water I probably could have easily just paddled back in with the thing half submerged.

The sit-inside kayak's front deck is where the leverage point is at the best angle available to pry-up a completely swamped kayak. The SOT deck is much lower and the angle is a serious load to support before draining starts to make it easier. Rescuing kayak stability is probably very hard to maintain w/o one or two holding on in the rear. A Cobra Maurader would be the best rescuing SOT.

One more point...

I do a lot of sculpture, it's what I do, sometimes in foam. There are many types of foam: Urethane, Cyanurate, extruded polyurethane (styrofoam), expanded polyurethane (EPS), etc. Typically, a special marine quality EPS is what you see used for floatation, it's the closed cell beaded looking stuff found under marinas. Over the years I've sliced through a lot of "Great Stuff" and I can tell you that it is very much open cell structure, sometimes with large internal voids. I know the "Stuff" seems to have a solid skin over the surface, but I'm not sure how resistant to water intrusion that product is. It seriously resembles a sponge on the inside. Another item that merits testing.

Here another interesting tidbit: "It is a federal law that boats 20 feet and shorter have level flotation material... The Code of Federal Regulations is very specific about testing (the foam) for water absorption..."

If that website is to be believed there must be some loophole in the law regarding kayak construction.

If that website is to be believed there must be some loophole in the law regarding kayak construction.

Exactly. There is such an exception. And it covers canoes as well.


Scott

Forget about stevens creek you guys really should do those training sessions at Ano or up at Dux to ramp up the motivation factor

Bluekayak,
We are breakign this down in steps.First using calm water conditions to come up with ideas, probe limits, and practice techniques. Then we'll take what we think might work to the ocean or Bay to test under real conditions. Your suggestion is equivalent to going to to Mavericks to learn to surf or teh tidal race at Yellow Bluffs to learn to roll. One step at a time to the goal.

Umm Marmot I am pretty sure blue is pulling your chain... 

Umm Marmot I am pretty sure blue is pulling your chain... 

Yeah, most likley. But I had to clarify in any case so as not to be misunderstood.
As Mike Meyers used to say on SNL Wayne's World: "Fished In!" 
How appropriate for this board eh?

Saturday at 9:00 AM is the plan?

Next Sat/Sun not this one. I don't know if Scott set a definitive date yet or not but he was talking about a week from tomorrow.
I cannot make it this Saturday--I am Officier of the Day and have CQ because my wife is hosting a work event.

Ok folks - Can I get a roster of who will be out there this Saturday? The meeting place is Stevens Creek Reservoir. Time is 9:00 AM. Be prepared to be wet for a couple hours.

Regards,
Scott

I know this has been evolving, but can you review what the general format is likely to be.

Thanks, I think I might be able to attend but I need to rearrange some things and I don't know if I can actually come with my gear as I will need to be going to another activity afterward and will use my non-yak car; May need to just to watch if its near the shore.

Scott,
I'll be there.
I probably will do the expoxy testing on a 5 gallon bucket before Saturday because it won't cure fast in the expected 60 degree temps.
Craig

I'll be there. Hoep the water is still warm after teh cold snap and rains this week