Swamped Kayak Rescue Sessions - Stevens Creek Reservoir/HMB

Haven't found teh right person at WSK yet.
Stern carries would be harder to simluate in a pool true--that favors SCR or some other place big.

So maybe either Aquan's pool or SCR. I'll talk with Jay at Outback--they rent up there. Maybe Jay would like to participate--he's an instructor as well.

SCR is fine by me.

Scott,
The SCR plan is good with me on those dates.
BTW, I'm bring'n my entire wet sand paper collection.
I have some kayak touring books that include group rescue techniques. You probably have some too, right? If someone has a DVD of rescue techniques, I will bring my laptop so we can view it before we get in the water.
A old 5 gallon plastic bucket that is leak-free will come in handy too, anyone have one to sacrifice for hole filling tests?
Craig

Suppose to fish Eagle that weekend but I will attend this session instead. Count me in as there more for the experience of being around experience.

Alan wears a shorty John under his waders to provide insulation when wet and that might well be a solution but I'd think not so comfortable. You are defeating the purpose of breathable waders by wearing a non-breathable wetsuit under them so I'll bet they get 'clammy'.

The waders/shorty combo is way more comfortable than just a farmer john.  I don't really get clammy.  And my legs and feet stay completely dry.

-Allen

The waders/shorty combo is way more comfortable than just a farmer john.  I don't really get clammy.  And my legs and feet stay completely dry.

Maybe not in Seattle, but try 85 degrees in Monterey Bay. Also, waders, as others have also mentioned, are difficult to swim in and while they don't drag you down, they are loose and will pick up water making them mini-sea anchors. Now, in a lake I don't mind given the small risk I'll even swim and the fact I have little to fear from sruf and current. But in the ocean? No way. I dress to survive as best I can and I don't think waders are a prudent choice--they cut your odds--substantially.

Maybe not in Seattle, but try 85 degrees in Monterey Bay.

I have worn this setup in 85 degree weather.  Not a problem for me.

With a belt, very little water gets in the legs.  With a PFD over the top, very little water gets in the portion above the belt and it sure can't balloon up like a sea anchor.

-Allen

Hmmm. Seems logical and if water does get in the wet suit keeps you insulated. And because the water cannot circulate, you don't need the same thickness wetsuit you'd need if the water was open and circulating. I might try it and see how it feels when we practice. But I think maybe I'd rather wear a dry suit if I really want to go to that trouble dressing--I can do even more in a dry suit and stay perfectly dry.

So I mis-spoke below when I said very little water gets in the top.  Water does get in the top.  It just doesn't balloon up.  The shorty is there to keep my torso warm even in the presence of water.

I also wear a paddling jacket, with those paddling jacket "seals" at the wrist and waist.  They're not completely waterproof, but they do slow the entry of water.  I usually have the neck open though, so if my head goes under, water will come in there quite fast.

Probably between the belt, the paddling jacket waist seal, and the PFD waist strap there is some redundancy going on here.

-Allen

I have a book on kayak rescue techniques, but it's packed away somewhere, and has been since '96. I may pick up either the Roger Shumann or John Lull book. I've taken a class from Roger, and met John at the HMB tourney. Both guys are incredibly approachable and very knowlegeable.

Information is certainly out there on the web. One place to start would be here:   http://kayakwiki.org/index.php/Rescue

I was planning on bringing at least one 5 gal bucket for "wave simulation".

I'll also be bringing a host of SIK rescue equipment, dry bags, float bags, rope, bilge pump, helmets, my Scupper Pro as normally rigged, some "pseudo fishing poles" and one, if not two SIK boats just for grins.


I'd like to perform, or attempt to perform the following:

pump out swamped boats, while emulating open ocean conditions. i.e - hatch barely above water, with someone using a bucket to emulate wave action.
T or X rescue a fully swamped boat that is floating level.
T or X rescue a 80-90% swamped boat that is floating with it's hatch(es) submerged.
rescue a boat in a Cleopatras Needle situation

Demonstrate speed of towed swimmer
Demonstrate stern and bow rides.


And am certainly open to other ideas. But my own personal focus will be on the issue of swamped boats. I'll be more than happy to participate in a Wader test swim session, but ask that someone else drive that. I will bring my waders, waistbelt etc...


This really doesn't need to be a dawn patrol sort of thing, but it would probably be best if we didn't get too late of a start - How about 9:00 AM?


Regards,
Scott

I have the John Lull book--the best one out there I have found. I can bring it.
I'll bring a few things too.

Here's two things I've done to stop my scupper pro (and other sots) from sinking when I think its going to get rough:

First, I've carved foam bulkheads that take up a lot of space (displace a lot of volume) that fit front, aft and in the mid section of my boat.  When I think there's a chance of danger, especially if I'm going a distance offshore, I always install them before the trip.  I've set them up so there's still gear storage.  If I'm just going to the lake or something, I don't put them in.  I found my foam (and old escaped dock or something), but I believe you can buy blocks of the stuff at home depot.   Just get out your fillet knife and start sculpting.

The other thing I do is use dry bags.  I have a bunch of different sized dry bags, which I inflate to various degrees and stuff in all the places underdeck where there's no gear.  They do make float bags that fit in sots, but I find the dry bags work better because they're more flexible, and you can put stuff in them too.

Both these methods add floatation, but more importantly they take up a lot of volume, which displaces water.  I deliberately tried to sink it for a test with both foam and dry bags and both worked well enough to allow me to pump it out on about a 3-4 ft day.  I had to kind of hang on the side at first with the pump just squeezed through the cracked open hatch.  Seemed like it would work in bigger if it were more groundswell than seas.  That steep stuff is tough.

Probably not the whole solution, but food for thought.

Pescadore,
You are on the right track. the two things expedition sea kayakers rely on for floatation are: sealed bulkheadsand drybags of gear and air. SOT don't have bulkheads but added foam makes up for that and you have the dry bags.

I think that weekend works for me. I would love to join in the fun, and I think I have some buckets 5 and 3 gallon.

The reason I suggested a pool is that  a crew can take a kayak, half full of water and bounce it off the surface of the pool to make fairly large waves  whih makes for very realistic rough water rescues. We cannot do that in SCR. So I think we should have a second session at Coyote Point in the afternoon swell and wind waves.

I think pescadore has the right idea. Pumps are useful up to a certain point, but if a boat is swamped in moderate swells I'm not sure it would be of much help. The goal should be to prevent it from ever getting to that point. From my experience there are only a few solutions: inflatable bags, lots of marine foam or another option might be to trigger co2 inflatable bags (like the pdfs) in your hull to displace the water out of the hatches in an emergency.

You have to remember that when a kayak fills with water it takes on hundreds of pounds in weight and all that weight begins to have a profound effect your ability to move, trim or maneuver the boat. You might be able to get the feel of this by rocking the boat from side to side with your hips when it's full during your test in a pool or lake but IMHO you are kidding yourself if you think that a test like that in any way simulates the ocean.

I think you are going to find what I did: There seems to be a very sharp tipping point where the boat suddenly becomes extremely slow no matter how hard you paddle and stops responding to attempts to trim the boat using body English. Chop and swell further complicate the task. When it gets to the point that the boat starts to submerge as each swell passes you are pretty much assured of leaving the boat. If a swell with any meat passes over the deck you are off the boat, your PFD floats and physically lifts you off, there is little you can do at this point, you are swept off the boat. IMHO emulating open ocean conditions really isn't remotely possible without swell. Swell practically describes the environment.