2015 AOTY Prize Kayak

I really like this post Salty. made a few years ago.

Especially the part about AOTY being different things to different people, and how some people sign up just to support the cause (NCKA server fees or PIF, I think the concept is the same).

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=35887.0

Maybe we should just do AOTY without any prize kayaks at all, and just have the Piscean Plaque, bragging rights and fun be the prizes?

I personally would be totally cool with that.

Sincerely,

Jim

That explains the huge jump in sign ups that year.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everyone thinks about these competitions the same way...and the "prize" may be different for different people...and I PERSONALLY dont think that you have to finish in any given place or win any certain prize or plaque to have an amazing PERSONAL experience with these games...

I honestly don't care what we do with the Hobie Kayak in 2015.

It wasn't my idea to do the "participation raffle" for the Hobie Kayak this year, it was the idea of multiple members of the 2013 AOTY committee (which included both the owner of NCKA and a past AOTY champion).

Having served on the AOTY committee I appreciate and thank-you for your efforts Jim! 

I couldn't agree more with you Jim that it's about personal challenge and having fun.  The big prizes don't really matter to me. This current debate doesn't seem like it has to be a big deal.

I will note for the record, since you bring me up above, that there was a minority opinion on the commitee's initial raffle vs first place discussion/vote for the 2014 Hobie prize!      

No surprise though that there are strong different opinions when it comes to AOTY.  When I step back it seems that a great solution is to try for the 3 kayaks (AOTY and DOTY winners plus one for raffle) as suggested by Pat.  While serving on the AOTY committee from 2011-2013 there were 2 main topics that folks complained about.  The first was the subjective mouth open/ajar/natural position.  The second issue was folks justifiably complaining that AOTY favors those that can fish alot. 

Implementing the objective mouth-closed rule has all but ended the first type of complaints (though, predictably, some don't agree with this rule - this can be discussed in the other 2015 AOTY suggestions thread if needed).  I think working towards the 3 kayaks would help with the second issue.  We'd have boats go to the deserving AOTY and DOTY winners, and have a boat for those who want to participate for fun and to support PIF with a shot at a kayak through earning up to 21 raffle tickets.  Might be a productive option to bring both perspectives into AOTY and grow the event.  Doesn't need to be only one or the other.  AOTY evolves every few years, so expanding it to encompass both perspectives seems like a reasonable next step.  We can figure out the best way for getting the kayaks given all of the contacts we have within NCKA (e.g., free donation, purchase at cost).     

Thanks John!

I will note for the record, since you bring me up above, that there was a minority opinion on the commitee's initial raffle vs first place discussion/vote for the 2014 Hobie prize!      

Lol! Yeah, I just re-read all 5 pages of the thread where we discussed how to do it this year.

Honestly....I'm still glad we came to the descions we did as a committee...

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Sincerely,

Jim

Maybe next year I will volunteer to be on the committee, but they probably won't like my rulings, black or white, no grey areas. Call it as I see it

The committee would love your rulings.  The rules have evolved over time to allow little to no grey areas.

-Allen

Yup.  I bitched about it a few years back, but I have since seen the light.

I think there has to be a balance.  Part of the reason AOTY winners do so well is that they have time to fish.  Some of these guys put 50-100+ days on the water.  The majority of kayak fishermen don't have the ability to do that as they're weekend warriors. For someone to win AOTY with less than 20 days a year OTW is essentially impossible.  So for these guys, they're essentially asked to subsidize the prizes for a few select people.  It hurts participation unless you're truly talking about someone participating solely for the fun of it.  And the sniping on top of that hurts the fun part of that.  I've participated in AOTY every year since 2009, which is also the last year that I put any true effort into it.  But I participated because I believed in supporting NCKA, and now in PIF.   You need participants to support the cause, and all the complaining doesn't attract new people who need time to be involved.  If only people who have a shot at placing participate, you'd be looking at 15-20 or so folks, x $40 each.  Hard for a sponsor to justify contributing big prizes to an event that attracts so few.

Ben, I think that is a bunch of baloney.  I worked full time last year, took one semester of grad school (15 units), and bought a house... yet I managed to win AOTY. It wouldn't surprise me if lots of the other winners also worked full time.  To win, AOTY must be a priority (for me it was). Some people prioritize differently (kids, family, higher income etc.), and they are less likely to win.   

I also think you overestimate the amount of water time needed to do well in AOTY. You can save yourself a bunch of time by knowing where and when to fish,preparing before you go (way-points pre-programed from google earth bathymetric maps,  knowing temps, tides etc.), and then making the most of your trips. Some people like to sleep in, hang out in the mornings, drink and party the night before. You won't find most of the AOTY competitors doing too much of that. They are the guys who have catch a salmon while you hit the snooze button for the 5th time.

I really like Salty.

Sincerely,

Jim

Why thank you Jim! The feelings mutual.   

ok here's my latest idea. The whole different kayak/prizes for AOTY & DOTY is fine. But what about breaking down AOTY a little more.

$30 for PIF & documenting catches.

$60 for PIF, documenting catches, placing, & prizes.

& remember people can paypal PIF with more if they want to but breaking AOTY down in this way might help give more people what they want out of it.

I was always fine with the pre-2014 format but I do see the other POV's.

I really like Salty.

Sincerely,

Jim

Why thank you Jim! The feelings mutual.   

ok here's my latest idea. The whole different kayak/prizes for AOTY & DOTY is fine. But what about breaking down AOTY a little more.

$30 for PIF & documenting catches.

$60 for PIF, documenting catches, placing, & prizes.

& remember people can paypal PIF with more if they want to but breaking AOTY down in this way might help give more people what they want out of it.

I was always fine with the pre-2014 format but I do see the other POV's.

That is silly, Jim. People already document their catches by posting to the forum. Why would they pay extra to do the same thing?

I think there has to be a balance.  Part of the reason AOTY winners do so well is that they have time to fish.  Some of these guys put 50-100+ days on the water.  The majority of kayak fishermen don't have the ability to do that as they're weekend warriors. For someone to win AOTY with less than 20 days a year OTW is essentially impossible.  So for these guys, they're essentially asked to subsidize the prizes for a few select people.  It hurts participation unless you're truly talking about someone participating solely for the fun of it.  And the sniping on top of that hurts the fun part of that.  I've participated in AOTY every year since 2009, which is also the last year that I put any true effort into it.  But I participated because I believed in supporting NCKA, and now in PIF.   You need participants to support the cause, and all the complaining doesn't attract new people who need time to be involved.  If only people who have a shot at placing participate, you'd be looking at 15-20 or so folks, x $40 each.  Hard for a sponsor to justify contributing big prizes to an event that attracts so few.

Ben, I think that is a bunch of baloney.  I worked full time last year, took one semester of grad school (15 units), and bought a house... yet I managed to win AOTY. It wouldn't surprise me if lots of the other winners also worked full time.  To win, AOTY must be a priority (for me it was). Some people prioritize differently (kids, family, higher income etc.), and they are less likely to win.

well said Adam.

 

Ben you are right about the 50-100+days OTW. That's what makes AOTY the hardest tourney. You must make an incredible commitment to win.
Usually takes a few years of playing to get it done. Most people just don't understand that & I think they try to equate AOTY to single day tourneys.

Howard, yes you can post your fishing report with your catches for free on NCKA. & then your report eventually gets buried leaving you no easy to access record of your catches. AOTY has always been a good easy to access place for people to chronicle their fishing. I've posted fish that were not upgrades in prior years just to chronicle a great fishing day. But that costs $40.

 Maybe if there were two levels of participation......there would be MORE participation & the people that just want to be involved with AOTY to contribute to PIF thru AOTY could get something extra......without feeling like they were subsidizing competition that they DON'T want to participate in.

So there would be AOTY entries & then an 'Angler Entry' to differentiate the fish. If this had been available this year I would have utilized it. I would have liked to document my catches using AOTY but I didn't want to risk getting caught up in AOTY FEVER this year. Gotta concentrate on my new job.

Yes but it goes back again to the same question.  What do we want from AOTY?  Lots of people want different things-you can tell by the split in the voting.       I can't spend the time to prep, I have too many things to do that are honestly more important than fishing.  I participate anyways even though I have zero shot at winning.  But there are only a few people who are willing to participate when they have no shot at winning.  That seems evident in the numbers of participants. Take out the DOTY guys and how many true AOTY guys are there?  What's the cause for that?

Yes but it goes back again to the same question.  What do we want from AOTY?  Lots of people want different things-you can tell by the split in the voting.       I can't spend the time to prep, I have too many things to do that are honestly more important than fishing.  I participate anyways even though I have zero shot at winning.  But there are only a few people who are willing to participate when they have no shot at winning.  That seems evident in the numbers of participants. Take out the DOTY guys and how many true AOTY guys are there?  What's the cause for that?

Simple answer. Playing AOTY to place or win is not right for you at this time.
If you think back to that one year you played hard & did so well. Why would you want to change that experience for the next guy to play the game?

Yes but it goes back again to the same question.  What do we want from AOTY?  Lots of people want different things-you can tell by the split in the voting.       I can't spend the time to prep, I have too many things to do that are honestly more important than fishing.  I participate anyways even though I have zero shot at winning.  But there are only a few people who are willing to participate when they have no shot at winning.  That seems evident in the numbers of participants. Take out the DOTY guys and how many true AOTY guys are there?  What's the cause for that?

Anyone can win AOTY if they either fish a ton, or know enough about the AOTY fishes to target them at the right time and place. The latter takes far less time and energy than the former.

I plan to register every year for AOTY even though I don't want to win again. Aside from the support that AOTY has given NCKA and the AOTY board serves as a record of my trophy catches (since most are released).  It would also be nice to break some individual species records and get a WSB and Pac Hali under my name. Other than that, it's just plain fun to follow and cheaper than ESPN.

I really like this post Salty. made a few years ago.

Especially the part about AOTY being different things to different people, and how some people sign up just to support the cause (NCKA server fees or PIF, I think the concept is the same).

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=35887.0

Maybe we should just do AOTY without any prize kayaks at all, and just have the Piscean Plaque, bragging rights and fun be the prizes?

I personally would be totally cool with that.

Sincerely,

Jim

 That would be very cool. More laid back. The Sean plaque however you get it is a sweet , sweet prize. Still missing one of them. You are doing a great job BJ if I didn't say it already.

Id enter if there was no kayak grand prize, only the plaque......Only reason I've never entered is I like my kayak! And don't want a Hobie!