Gimme Shelter Growing Pains

I hear what you're saying about DFG.  I'm always nervous when I see of of them at the dock as I'm pulling in ... even when I DON'T have fish on the boat.

I'm the other way with DFG. I really am glad to see them out & about. I've never had a bad meeting with them but I try really hard to stay 100% legal. I'd never hear the end of it if I got in trouble, the commissioner that hears DFG cases already gives me crap over my speeding tickets. (I work for the court)

Your current format of catching different species helps make this tournament challenging and unique.  I really enjoy this format and look forward to the day that I am able to catch 5 or more species and kicking my brothers butt again.  Of course my brother will remind me that he caught 6 species at GSV.

I hear what you're saying about DFG.  I'm always nervous when I see of of them at the dock as I'm pulling in ... even when I DON'T have fish on the boat.

I'm the other way with DFG. I really am glad to see them out & about. I've never had a bad meeting with them but I try really hard to stay 100% legal. I'd never hear the end of it if I got in trouble, the commissioner that hears DFG cases already gives me crap over my speeding tickets. (I work for the court)

I agree. I'm friends with the DA that prosecutes DFW crimes and have cousins and an uncle high up in fisheries at DFW. I'd never hear the end of it.

I don't think putting a limit on the number of anglers able to participate in the tournament will alliviate the infrastructure problem of the Shelter Cove Campground.  Like someone said earlier, no matter what the format, I'm going to be there anyway.   So that won't do anything to help the infrastructure problem.  Putting a cap on number of participants will help Eric and staff, not Jack. 

In my opinion, Jack is in a tough spot.  I'm not sure what the rest of the year is like for his campground, occupancy-wise, but I'd imagine that the annual GS event is most likely the highest number of campers the campground sees at any one time throughout the year.  Here is where Jack's tough spot is, as I see it.  Does Jack spend the money to upgrade the infrastructure of his campground to accommodate a yearly sell-out crowd?  Is it a smart business decision to add more toilets and showers that are only going to be needed probably once a year?  I think that is the responsible thing for him to do.  But being responsible never made anyone money.  Jack needs to play chess.  Think about the future.  The growth rate of the GS event and the popularity of Kayak Fishing in general.  He needs to assess the maximum occupancy of his campground and the popularity of the GS event and the potential growth of the event and set his price per night accordingly, Eric as well.  With an increase of price and a set maximum occupancy needs to come the appropriate number of toilets, sinks, showers, water spigots, trash receptacles, ect.  I'm sure Eric could tell us what the growth of the event has been over the last 8 years.  I'm sure its been tough to predict and for Jack to keep up with.  I think he's (Jack) doing a good job.  The outbuilding and patio he had build are great.  I hope he continues to improve the campground with the things I mentioned earlier, the infrastructure.  It could be world class, if Jack wants it to be.  Thats assuming the one week a year makes it worth it to Jack to make the infrastructure improvements.  I predict the GS event could easily triple in size.  All the local Shelter Cove hotels, rental houses and campsites could/will be booked.  I bet people will be staying the night in Garberville and any available campsites near there.  They will wake up early the morning of the tournament and get down to the cove.  Thats what I think.  Eric, Jack, and the rest of the business owners in the Shelter Cove area have some heavy stuff to think about. 

The issue of species identification is ridiculous to me.  Why in the fuck would anyone take a life without knowing the rules to do so?  I totally understand that everyone is a rookie at one point, but it is your responsibility to know what species is what, and what the length and daily bag limit is before you touch fishing pole.  Its not hard, if you have the internet, (which I know you do if you're reading this) to go to the CA DFG web site and look it up and learn it.  It is your responsibility as an angler to do so.  I know mistakes happen to all of us with species identification, bag limit, and size limits, and thats life.  Being ignorant and making an honest mistake are two completely different things.  And you make yourself look like an asshole when you ask over the radio.  No special classes at the safety briefing or anything like that are needed.  What needs to be done is people need to get their shit together before they ever plan to go fishing.  And we, as a club need to hold them accountable for it.  How are we going to hold them accountable?  Thats open for discussion, I suppose.

The Shelter Cove locals.  Whatever.  We're all local to somewhere.  I get it.  They're just going to have to learn to deal with us.  That's life.  As long as no one is breaking anything or hurting anyone, they don't have a leg to stand on as far as I'm concerned.  NCKA brings a nice stimulous to the local economy, and I'm sorry for them if that upsets them.  I bet the local business owners love it, too bad if some crotchety old mountain hermit is bothered by the sudden influx of people.  Sometimes it isn't good to be so "sheltered" 

But damn, I love the Gimmie Shelter events.  Eric does a fantastic job, I'm not sure if I could ever do anything to pay him back for all his hard work.  I hope I get the chance one day in the future though.  We owe him big-time.  It's truly amazing to me to see first hand what one man's passion for something he loves can turn into.  This years event was the best one so far, and I'm sure I'll be saying that every year to come.  Thank you a million, Eric.  You are an amazing man.


Jeff

PS, this is just a bunch of thoughts off the top of my head, written in a way that I'd say them while talking to any of you reading this.  I don't want to come off too harsh or anything.  Sorry if it seemed that way.  I'm passionate about this fishing stuff 

This was my first GS tourney and I LOVED IT.  My buddy Codzilla helped me a bunch figuring it all out.  Any question I had about fish ID, my team helped me with.  I questioned one and they were not handy so it went back. Better safe than sorry. I even thru back my first black because it was only a 12 incher and seemed to need to grow up a bit.  Then I landed another small one and let it back too.  Never caught another one so ended up losing out on some points.  Still feel good about letting smaller fish go to grow up.

On the bathroom thing, as we were preparing to leave, my wife needed to use the head.  All were full to the top and she had to hold it.  No bueno. 

I will be back for GS 9 for sure and will prepare better this year.  Heading to Trinidad in the am for a few hours.

My hats off to Eric.  I put on two big game banquets during the year.  One seats 350 and the other 600.  It is a lot of work, but the reward is great.  He does a bang up job and gets full props from me and my team - North Valley Slayers baby!
 

Maybe you could get a local DFG officer to host the course on fish ID. ?

Perhaps, but I know that some people feel uncomfortable inviting LEOs to a tournament.  Maybe we could get a fish counter to host it.  Those guys are usually in a rather hostile work environment, and it might be a nice change for their work to be appreciated.

The fish counter on opening day didn't know a gopher from a copper.

If we went the route of recruiting a fish counter, I'd only want my old college buddy Dan (aka, the BassMan) doing it.  He's spot-on with his fish ID.  I've had mixed results with other fish counters.  One time I had a young lady telling me I'd caught a 'red-form copper' when I was essentially 100% sure it was a vermillion (rough chin, black-tipped fins, etc).  I stopped arguing and let her put "copper" on the fish counter sheet.  Whatever.

Though I guess really, anglers only really need to know how to ID the off-limits species like yelloweyes, canaries, etc.  Attempting to differentiate between a gopher and a copper wouldn't really make a difference.  My bro caught a gopher out there last week that could've easily passed for a black-and-yellow.  Hell, it very well could've been a BnY.  But in the letter of the law, there's no reason to differentiate between those two.  To be fair, I've run into wardens who had no idea how to identify rockfish either.  About 5 years ago I took the time to show a warden the defining characteristics of a grass rockfish I'd landed while poke-poling.  Totally new to him.  I can't blame him for not knowing though--after all, they also have to know all the myriad waterfowl and game species, all the fishing and hunting regulations, etc.  They have a lot to digest.

I think if we were able to convince CDFW to post a warden at the launch on tourney day AND advertise in the GS thread that there'd be a warden present, it might convince people to brush up on their fish ID skills.  Or we could go the public shaming route that someone mentioned earlier in the thread  .  I didn't think species ID would be a big deal for the group until Dustin mentioned that at least 5 yelloweye had been bonked by kayakers.  And who knows how many other illegal fish were kept.  It sets a poor example for us as a group.  Unfortunately, I'd heard the size limit questions over the radio at GS-7 and kinda expected them to pop up again at GS-8.  Yeah yeah, it's good to double-check on your regs to make sure you're legit, but questions like that make us look like idiots to anyone else scanning the radio.  Ask someone knowledgeable nearby if you have to ask at all.  Don't broadcast it over the freakin' VHF.  And really, there should be NO NEED to ask about the regulations for your target fish.

Your current format of catching different species helps make this tournament challenging and unique.  I really enjoy this format...

+1!  If the intent of switching to a "heaviest fish takes all" format is to protect rockfish, I don't think we'd see the results we wanted.  People are still going to fish rockies.  I'll still fish with a teaser above that big bait so I can catch rockfish.  I don't see why others who want to catch rockfish would not do this during the tournament.  The existing format (multiple species with different points per inch), in addition to that "biggest ling" category, provided many avenues to pursue for success.  The entire time I'm out there, I'm asking myself "Is my lingcod good enough?  Should I focus more on cabezon?  Should I just hunt for Greenlingzilla and accept decent fish for the other categories?" It's fun!  And it can be real funny watching people get out of their comfort zones and work their butts off for a kelp greenling  .  Providing multiple species also gives everyone a fair shot at scoring high.  You can get four of the six with a cheap-o Walmart Special combo.  That's exactly what I did  .

Moving to a "big fish takes all" format?  Well that means I'd only focus on halibut and wouldn't waste time on anything else.  And then the limit is one fish, one fish that'd you certainly have to keep if it was half-decent because nobody's going to lay a live halibut on a hawg trough on a kayak in the ocean.  Add to that the fact that not everyone has the tackle necessary to land a large halibut (including me, and I'm not going to spend the money on a new rod+reel and gaff that I'd use maybe once a year if at all).  It'd make the tournament more one-dimensional and not as fun IMO.

Last name .....  Bush
First name .... Seymore

             

I just attended a manufacturing show yesterday @ Santa Clara and registered under than name for the fun of it.  Some of the vendors got it ... sadly, most didn't.

As Curly Fine would say

"Hey I resemble that remark!!"

Bushy

I call BS

Maybe you could get a local DFG officer to host the course on fish ID. ?

Perhaps, but I know that some people feel uncomfortable inviting LEOs to a tournament.  Maybe we could get a fish counter to host it.  Those guys are usually in a rather hostile work environment, and it might be a nice change for their work to be appreciated.

The fish counter on opening day didn't know a gopher from a copper.

If we went the route of recruiting a fish counter, I'd only want my old college buddy Dan (aka, the BassMan) doing it.  He's spot-on with his fish ID.  I've had mixed results with other fish counters.  One time I had a young lady telling me I'd caught a 'red-form copper' when I was essentially 100% sure it was a vermillion (rough chin, black-tipped fins, etc).  I stopped arguing and let her put "copper" on the fish counter sheet.  Whatever.

Though I guess really, anglers only really need to know how to ID the off-limits species like yelloweyes, canaries, etc.  Attempting to differentiate between a gopher and a copper wouldn't really make a difference.  My bro caught a gopher out there last week that could've easily passed for a black-and-yellow.  Hell, it very well could've been a BnY.  But in the letter of the law, there's no reason to differentiate between those two.  To be fair, I've run into wardens who had no idea how to identify rockfish either.  About 5 years ago I took the time to show a warden the defining characteristics of a grass rockfish I'd landed while poke-poling.  Totally new to him.  I can't blame him for not knowing though--after all, they also have to know all the myriad waterfowl and game species, all the fishing and hunting regulations, etc.  They have a lot to digest.

I think if we were able to convince CDFW to post a warden at the launch on tourney day AND advertise in the GS thread that there'd be a warden present, it might convince people to brush up on their fish ID skills.  Or we could go the public shaming route that someone mentioned earlier in the thread  .  I didn't think species ID would be a big deal for the group until Dustin mentioned that at least 5 yelloweye had been bonked by kayakers.  And who knows how many other illegal fish were kept.  It sets a poor example for us as a group.  Unfortunately, I'd heard the size limit questions over the radio at GS-7 and kinda expected them to pop up again at GS-8.  Yeah yeah, it's good to double-check on your regs to make sure you're legit, but questions like that make us look like idiots to anyone else scanning the radio.  Ask someone knowledgeable nearby if you have to ask at all.  Don't broadcast it over the freakin' VHF.  And really, there should be NO NEED to ask about the regulations for your target fish.

Your current format of catching different species helps make this tournament challenging and unique.  I really enjoy this format...

+1!  If the intent of switching to a "heaviest fish takes all" format is to protect rockfish, I don't think we'd see the results we wanted.  People are still going to fish rockies.  I'll still fish with a teaser above that big bait so I can catch rockfish.  I don't see why others who want to catch rockfish would not do this during the tournament.  The existing format (multiple species with different points per inch), in addition to that "biggest ling" category, provided many avenues to pursue for success.  The entire time I'm out there, I'm asking myself "Is my lingcod good enough?  Should I focus more on cabezon?  Should I just hunt for Greenlingzilla and accept decent fish for the other categories?" It's fun!  And it can be real funny watching people get out of their comfort zones and work their butts off for a kelp greenling  .  Providing multiple species also gives everyone a fair shot at scoring high.  You can get four of the six with a cheap-o Walmart Special combo.  That's exactly what I did  .

Moving to a "big fish takes all" format?  Well that means I'd only focus on halibut and wouldn't waste time on anything else.  And then the limit is one fish, one fish that'd you certainly have to keep if it was half-decent because nobody's going to lay a live halibut on a hawg trough on a kayak in the ocean.  Add to that the fact that not everyone has the tackle necessary to land a large halibut (including me, and I'm not going to spend the money on a new rod+reel and gaff that I'd use maybe once a year if at all).  It'd make the tournament more one-dimensional and not as fun IMO.

.... Or you could do it, Clayman    Aren't you just a glorified fish counter? 

1) Limit GS to 300. Not everyone who enters fishes.

2) I don't want to have to take a pop quiz on fish ID.
    It's just another gaffe to make the masses pay for the ignorance of the few.
    Everyone should know their stuff.
    I switched to channel 68. Too noisy on 69. Some of the boaters had fish ID  questions too.

3) Jack is a very smart man who has his stuff together. I have no doubt he'll get it right.

4) The only problem I saw was people didn't pick up after themselves after the potluck.
     How hard is it really to clean up after yourself? You bring a bottle, you leave with that bottle. Use a paper plate, see it to the trash can. If everyone took care of their own mess there would be nothing left for anyone else to clean up. It isn't rocket science.

5) The week at Shelter Cove was probably one of my top two vacations of all time, and I've had some great ones.

6) GS is run to perfection. It's the errors of a few participants that need to be self corrected.

.... Or you could do it, Clayman    Aren't you just a glorified fish counter? 

How about we tag-team it? 

1) Limit GS to 300. Not everyone who enters fishes.

2) I don't want to have to take a pop quiz on fish ID.
    It's just another gaffe to make the masses pay for the ignorance of the few.
    Everyone should know their stuff.
    I switched to channel 68. Too noisy on 69. Some of the boaters had fish ID  questions too.

3) Jack is a very smart man who has his stuff together. I have no doubt he'll get it right.

4) The only problem I saw was people didn't pick up after themselves after the potluck.
     How hard is it really to clean up after yourself? You bring a bottle, you leave with that bottle. Use a paper plate, see it to the trash can. If everyone took care of their own mess there would be nothing left for anyone else to clean up. It isn't rocket science.

5) The week at Shelter Cove was probably one of my top two vacations of all time, and I've had some great ones.

6) GS is run to perfection. It's the errors of a few participants that need to be self corrected.

+1

I don't think putting a limit on the number of anglers able to participate in the tournament will alliviate the infrastructure problem of the Shelter Cove Campground.  Like someone said earlier, no matter what the format, I'm going to be there anyway.   So that won't do anything to help the infrastructure problem.  Putting a cap on number of participants will help Eric and staff, not Jack. 

In my opinion, Jack is in a tough spot.  I'm not sure what the rest of the year is like for his campground, occupancy-wise, but I'd imagine that the annual GS event is most likely the highest number of campers the campground sees at any one time throughout the year.  Here is where Jack's tough spot is, as I see it.  Does Jack spend the money to upgrade the infrastructure of his campground to accommodate a yearly sell-out crowd?  Is it a smart business decision to add more toilets and showers that are only going to be needed probably once a year?  I think that is the responsible thing for him to do.  But being responsible never made anyone money.  Jack needs to play chess.  Think about the future.  The growth rate of the GS event and the popularity of Kayak Fishing in general.  He needs to assess the maximum occupancy of his campground and the popularity of the GS event and the potential growth of the event and set his price per night accordingly, Eric as well.  With an increase of price and a set maximum occupancy needs to come the appropriate number of toilets, sinks, showers, water spigots, trash receptacles, ect.  I'm sure Eric could tell us what the growth of the event has been over the last 8 years.  I'm sure its been tough to predict and for Jack to keep up with.  I think he's (Jack) doing a good job.  The outbuilding and patio he had build are great.  I hope he continues to improve the campground with the things I mentioned earlier, the infrastructure.  It could be world class, if Jack wants it to be.  Thats assuming the one week a year makes it worth it to Jack to make the infrastructure improvements.  I predict the GS event could easily triple in size.  All the local Shelter Cove hotels, rental houses and campsites could/will be booked.  I bet people will be staying the night in Garberville and any available campsites near there.  They will wake up early the morning of the tournament and get down to the cove.  Thats what I think.  Eric, Jack, and the rest of the business owners in the Shelter Cove area have some heavy stuff to think about. 

The issue of species identification is ridiculous to me.  Why in the fuck would anyone take a life without knowing the rules to do so?  I totally understand that everyone is a rookie at one point, but it is your responsibility to know what species is what, and what the length and daily bag limit is before you touch fishing pole.  Its not hard, if you have the internet, (which I know you do if you're reading this) to go to the CA DFG web site and look it up and learn it.  It is your responsibility as an angler to do so.  I know mistakes happen to all of us with species identification, bag limit, and size limits, and thats life.  Being ignorant and making an honest mistake are two completely different things.  And you make yourself look like an asshole when you ask over the radio.  No special classes at the safety briefing or anything like that are needed.  What needs to be done is people need to get their shit together before they ever plan to go fishing.  And we, as a club need to hold them accountable for it.  How are we going to hold them accountable?  Thats open for discussion, I suppose.

The Shelter Cove locals.  Whatever.  We're all local to somewhere.  I get it.  They're just going to have to learn to deal with us.  That's life.  As long as no one is breaking anything or hurting anyone, they don't have a leg to stand on as far as I'm concerned.  NCKA brings a nice stimulous to the local economy, and I'm sorry for them if that upsets them.  I bet the local business owners love it, too bad if some crotchety old mountain hermit is bothered by the sudden influx of people.  Sometimes it isn't good to be so "sheltered" 

But damn, I love the Gimmie Shelter events.  Eric does a fantastic job, I'm not sure if I could ever do anything to pay him back for all his hard work.  I hope I get the chance one day in the future though.  We owe him big-time.  It's truly amazing to me to see first hand what one man's passion for something he loves can turn into.  This years event was the best one so far, and I'm sure I'll be saying that every year to come.  Thank you a million, Eric.  You are an amazing man.


Jeff

PS, this is just a bunch of thoughts off the top of my head, written in a way that I'd say them while talking to any of you reading this.  I don't want to come off too harsh or anything.  Sorry if it seemed that way.  I'm passionate about this fishing stuff 

Very well stated.

I wouldn't support a attendance cap if it was first to register like Elk used to be. Too much insider BS, IMO. I do support a CA DFG quiz as part of registration. If you know the regs it should take a minute or less. It was rediculous the number of questions and a few violations.

Moving to a "big fish takes all" format?  Well that means I'd only focus on halibut and wouldn't waste time on anything else.  And then the limit is one fish, one fish that'd you certainly have to keep if it was half-decent because nobody's going to lay a live halibut on a hawg trough on a kayak in the ocean.  Add to that the fact that not everyone has the tackle necessary to land a large halibut (including me, and I'm not going to spend the money on a new rod+reel and gaff that I'd use maybe once a year if at all).  It'd make the tournament more one-dimensional and not as fun IMO.

Actually I did it a few times last year so I could get my Kayak Wars points and catch a bigger halibut.   


It would be easier to catch a big salmon or ling cause halibut have really been off the bite in Shelter Cove lately and the best spots are not where everyone is capable of going as ell as the weather permitting it.

Here is a live halibut on the trough I put 2 live ones on the trough that day 8-7-2013  I lost the big one later that day, but caught a 50+lber a week later.  This year we cant fish for them in August though.

and here is a yelloweye, 1 of 2 I caught over the weekend

Actually I did it a few times last year so I could get my Kayak Wars points and catch a bigger halibut.

When Chris stated his piece about the Halibut in the lap, I was envisioning something along the line of what Randall caught at GS6, which would be insane, Rob's is just kinda crazy?