Caspar rebar experiment 7-23

Other than cost, why not use a diamond jig, or mickey jig without the hook and your dingler? 

Better yet drop some windchimes down there too! 
Jason

I have not seen a 14oz diamond jig plus I think you want to put something down there that they are less likely to hit.

J-as I understood the "latex proposal" was to make a giant "slinky" style weight, which is soft...and would thud not dingle.

I have not seen a 14oz diamond jig plus I think you want to put something down there that they are less likely to hit.

They make big Diamond Jigs.  I have a 16oz.  Never used it though...

I like your idea of sinker release.  No fun fighting a fish with a huge weight and the equipment needed.

scwafish, I get it. I was thinking it was just a "cap" that fits over the top of the bar. I think I've seen latex sinker holders like this.
They are used to hold "pencil" lead. You cut the lead to just the lengthy you need, it's real analogous to the rebar thing.
Of course, I could be hallucinating again.

I've also seen the sinkers you are talking about; the slinky kind, I'm guessing that is not what they were thinking.

I have used the sinker release already and caught a 29" ling trolling a broken back rapala in capitola this year. I got the idea from
a guy who posted his halibut trolling setup on coastside, he did it that way.

I have also seen 14oz diamond jigs. but that would be expensive and like you say you want them to hit the thing with the
hook, not the thing without it.

Yeah, I was thinking the latex tubing would just cover the top inch or two of the bar, so I don't think it would dampen the dingle.  Would be like a larger version of the river sinker / pencil lead setup that is common for steelhead fishing. 

As they say... It's not the size of the rebar that counts, but the degree of dingle that really matters. 

EK

My winning ling at Elk last year came on an Orange 16 oz bar (tady shaped).  They do exist and evidently they do work.  It didn't last long though as I lost it on the next big fish (forgot to recheck my knot after the excitment of catching the first really big fish).

another attachment idea would be to epoxy or goop something to the
top that can take an eyelet of some sort. the bar might twist less then too.

For my own trolling experiments, I will probably stick with a
sinker release, dropper lead and floating plug setup for a bit, but
I would not mind a stack of rebar instead of lead for weight just
because it is a little friendlier to the reef maybe.  and maybe
cheaper although it's not like I get to go fishing enough that loss
of tackle is really an issue for me.

Is there a place you can just call up and say "send me 3 dozen 14oz
lengths of rebar please"?  probably not, but maybe google
or the yellow pages will say different.

lastly dave, how deep were you trolling, what size/type was your
mainline and did you notice your speed? I assume all that will affect
the weight you need to use.

J

Not to sound like too much of a tree huggger, but I feel better dropping off iron into habitat where the the fish I eat come from, rather than lead.  I don't know if the lead is reactive or a problem, but my gut feeling is that iron is better.

You can have the hardware store cut off whatever lengths you want, but they charge per cut.  My motivation for this whole deal, however, was to be cheap, easy, and no big deal if you lost the weight, just hang another so long as you get to keep your swimbait.  The unleaded 9 inchers I'm buying cost 3 - 4 bucks a piece.  The leaded Storm Swimbaits cost almost 7 bucks.  Lose 4 or 5 of these in a session and it starts to add up.

My ff (eagle 240) is back at the factory after it crapped out while still under warranty, but I was working 30 - 60 ft of water.  Here's my method:  At a standstill let the rig down till it just touches the bottom, but don't have any slack line.  Start paddling and once some momentum is reached, spool out more line till it hits bottom again.  Keep your paddling rate such that when you notice that the rod tip is not dingling you slow down or stop until the tip shows that you hit bottom again (rebar swings back down).  Then start paddling again.  My experience is that you want to substitute the stuff you would normally do with your reel retrieve and rod tip with paddle strokes.  I was even padding backwards for a while so that I could really watch my rod tip.  I have no idea how fast it was, but  I tried not to have the line out at too much of angle from the boat.  I think the more straight up and down it is, the better off the method works.  Also, slack line will hang you up right away.

I just tried this thing once, so I'm no expert.  I'd like to hear what others figure out about it.

Not to sound like too much of a tree huggger, but I feel better dropping off iron into habitat where the the fish I eat come from, rather than lead.  I don't know if the lead is reactive or a problem, but my gut feeling is that iron is better.

Here was a discussion about lead balls and their environmental impact, or lack thereof.  Basically, the main concern about lead sinkers is with split shot size lead which birds will pick up if they find it and use it in their gizzards.  This can cause some toxicity in the birds.  A big ball of lead on the bottom of the ocean doesn't leach or become bioavailable. 

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/bb/index.php?topic=2057.0

I didn't realize you needed so much weight to troll for lings.  Must be moving pretty fast on the troll that 8oz is to light to bang the bottom.  Doesn't take much to move a swim bait.

jason

If iron was convenient for weights, I'd probably use it, but
lead is all I have available so I'll use it for now. hope
p-spark is right.

jselli, well, deep water, or fast current/speed or thick
line, the bait is only part of the drag. the line is the
rest.  If you need 1.5lbs to get an FBR on 80 feet of 30lb
spectra down, then you need that much to get down anything
else. 8oz would work for 30 feet of water maybe and spectra
line, and a small lure.  But it seems the weight needed goes
up fast after that. probably math is involved here,
.

Dave, I did it the same way as you, lower to the bottom,
ideally with a little drift. paddle a little till it comes
off the bottom and let out more line till it hits bottom
again.  I have it behind me and I use a $13
sunglasses-mounted mirror like the bicyclist commuters use.
it feels like a rearview mirror on a car. Unlike the
bicyclists, I put it on the right side of my sunglasses.
I'm pretty happy with how that works, you don't have to
stare at the mirror, you notice when it gets hit if it's in
your field of view.  The rod is straight back for minimal
drag and least likely to tip you over too.  The main issue
is with getting the sun in your eyes while the sun is still
low.  sometimes I switch to the "under-the-leg" method in
that case.

I did not worry about actually dingling, just that I wanted
my lure near the bottom. I guess I am just "ball-bouncing".
nothing new really.  Todd "C-level" writes about
ball-bouncing a minnow shaped plug over sand for halibut in
one of his articles. Those coastsiders do pretty well with
this in the bay, although they like bait behind
flashers/dodgers, and at least some of them use the weight
release.

I used the weight release for two reasons, one the weight
releasing helps set the hook and helps me notice the hit.
second, I don't have the weight hanging there while landing
the fish, but I think I will go to a stronger release and
when I get to my last weight just use a 3-way swivel in the
future. we'll see how that works out.

I have only tried this twice myself, but got fish in short
order each time in a place where fishing is not red hot.
First time I used a floating 4.5" rebel blue and silver
fastrac jointed minnow and got a 29" ling  in about
30 feet of water.  second time I used a 5.5" black and
silver jointed rebel floating minnow and got a 10" brown
rockfish  in 80 feet of water.  I think any floating
shallow diving plug with only 2 hooks will work (bomber long
A's look ideal) and be pretty durable if you don't lose it.
One issue might be with hollow floating lures taking on
water if they are fished 80 feet down, maybe solid plastic
floaters like Rebels are better.

The ling bent my hook, but not enough to get off or destroy
the hook permanently.  You could probably go to a single
siwash on the end of the plug, hook pointing up and that
would work on lings.  As an experiment I even took off the
back joint of a plug, put a siwash on there and threaded a
swimbait tail on.  looks good, haven't tried it, kind of an
AC plugs looking thing with one hook pointed up.

A floating jointed hardbody lure should be pretty durable if
you don't lose it. Lings will hit almost anything, so any
old used EBAY plug should work. might last longer than a
swimbait.  lings seem to delight in really clamping down on
the swimbait and tearing it up.

bsteves, you are coughing up your secrets, eh? I have a 10.5
oz mildly corroded chrome Salas PL-68 that I hope to lose on
a big ling someday, got it in a used kot of irons off EBAY.
I epoxied some eyes on it and some prizm tape too, now it
looks purdy.  If you had used 40lb yozuri for leader, maybe
you would still have it? big iron, need big leader?

J

Just when I was getting frustrated with rockcod fishing this comes along. I am really pumped to give this a try. I prefer trolling to floating around and jigging.

why troll when you can trooch    - save energy -

trooching works for sure. it's like the step in between pure drifting and pure trolling.
A great example of a kayak-specific technique.

The bottom bouncing/trolling/dingling is good whenever the structure isn't good enough to make
jigging productive enough to be exciting or if one is an impatient type and doesn't mind a little paddling
to keep the mind and body busy.

If I was in big sur, carmel pinnacles, fort ross, elk, linda mar boilers, all those places where fishing
is really good and I never go, I would not do this, but for the stretch from capitola up through davenport in
40 to 70 feet of water it's a pretty viable technique. I am hoping to nail a halibut this way before the
summer is out.

Bill don't go out to a pile of pinnacles and get hung up, then post how it didn't work, I can see
that one coming already,  . If you see structure on your FF, stop and jig! BTW did you see
the forebay is on fire for stripers right now? check coastside freshwater.

J

Yes, before anyone gets their hopes up too much, I'd just say that the method does have downsides.  Its kinda clunky and it takes some practice.  I'm not trying to promote it as Nirvana for kayak fishing.  It's just something I tried because I like doing that.  It will stay in my tool kit, but I can see how it would not appeal to everyone.  And you will get hung up - just less so, and lose less expensive gear.

In my case the other day at Caspar, I was going out to the point anyhow, and I was not going to stop and sample every continuous point along the way because I'm not that patient.  So it worked for me.  In fact, I caught my first and best fish in a place I would never have tried.

At certain times, I think Lings respond better to trolled gear than jigged.  I've seen this when I'm using scampi tails on my spinning outfit, casting and retrieving.

Mostly, I'm hoping it works well during windy days when you can't keep gear on the bottom.  Also, as far as amount of weight goes, your guess is as good as mine.  I felt that 13 oz let me feel the bottom, but maybe others will come to other conclusions.

A guy at work tried this last night at Caspar. He had the additional idea to bend the very end into an "L" and snell on to that.  He thinks it will act as a sled.  He didn't catch any fish, but he didn't get hung up either.  It was very rough yesterday.