To Back or Not To Back ~ PowerPro /w or w/o mono

Rigging up a new reel.  Want to install PowePro 50 on it.  Shimano states that it will hold about 400'ish yards of 50 PP w/o backing.  I have a few 300yd spools.  Should I mono back it & if so, how much P.P. should I top it with or just load the full 300yds of P.P. with no Mono backing?  What lb. test mono is suggested?

   Primary setup/use will be vertical jigging; Shimano Charter Special 1000LD on Trevala Rod.

~Bill

I back with mono. Helps with slipping. But for the most part its seems pointless to use 400yrs of spectra when you will only use the top 150ish yards for local fishing. I usually loosely spool on the spectra then top it with mono to the the fill level. then take it all off and spool it in the correct order tightly. Helps to have two extra reels to do the winding and re winding. I normally use whatever cheap mono i have laying around (somewhere in the 25-40lb range)

Makes sense.  I just ran out of time to run it over to Capitola to have it spooled so I'll have to do it myself tonight.  I have a 2000 version of this I want to re-spool with mono so it will work to use it as my second reel ....ooops, cant do that since it is a larger spool and the one I want for jigging will be the smaller spool. 

~Bill

This is a pretty good article-
Just whip out the good old excel spread sheet and its easy to figure out.

First published by Saltwater Sportsman

Braid and Mono Capacity –

How to figure just the right amount of Mono backing for the quantity of the Braid you want to use – or visa-versa.

By Adam Wilner

Many bottom-bumping anglers like to use the thinner and far more sensitive super braids to find their dinner.  This type of line offers greater strength, much smaller diameters and the key – Unbelievable sensitivity.  The down side it is that it costs 3 times the price of mono.  Most angles I know don’t want to spend upwards of $50 to fill the reel with line.  The solution is simple.  Put 150 yards of braid on the top and spool the rest with good old-fashioned monofilament. 

The problem occurs when we try to get just the right amount of monofilament backing to add the amount of braid we have decided upon.  I have heard of many methods to accomplish this.  The best one I have heard requires a second, identical spool, where you put on the braid first and then add the mono until the spool is full.  At this point you would take the end of the mono that you just put on and tie it onto the second reel.  Now wind it on and you are done – perfect.  Except you need another spool or in the case of most bottom rigs another reel.  That is a costly way to add line.

With a little info and a calculator you can get the same result for free (or at least real cheap).  However, you must remember that your results will only be as accurate as the information you use.  If you are looking for perfection then I recommend that you take precautions.  For example, test your line counter.

The first information you will need is how much line the reel will hold.  It doesn’t matter if the manufacturer tells you a capacity in a different line size than you are going to use because we are going to convert all the numbers.

In the following illustration I am going to use The Penn 113H, 50 lb Power Pro and Ande 30lb mono for the backing. 

The 113H has a capacity of 475 yards of 30 lb line.  We need to know the diameter of the 30 lb. line Penn used in “their” calculations.  I could have called them or sent an e-mail but Penn also printed the other capacity numbers (metric) on the Penn website www.pennreels.com.  It is 435 Meters at .55 millimeters (mm).  Don’t be frightened, like many of you, I don’t think in meters or millimeters either.  The conversion tables are easy to use or you could simply go to www.onlineconversion.com and plug in your numbers.  In this case I have converted meters to yards and millimeters to inches.  These are the terms I am familiar with.  You will also need to know the diameter of the lines.  Power Pro has the specs posted on their website at www.powerpro.com.   It says there that their 50 lb. test line is .014 inches in diameter.  Finally, I will use Ande 30 lb. Monofilament as the backing www.andemonofilament.com.  I found that 30 lb Ande is .022 inches in diameter.

Let’s jot down some conversions.
 
435 meters = 476 yards (rounded)

.55 mm = .0216535 inch

50 pound Power Pro = .014 inch

Ande Premium Monofilament 30 lb. = .022 inch

1 mm = .0393701 inch

1 meter = 1.0936133 yard

Total Capacity Factor

The total capacity equals 476 yards with line of .0216535 of an inch.  To get the total capacity factor we do the following:           476 x .0216535 = 10.30

So 10.30 is the total capacity factor.
The Braids Capacity Factor

The capacity factor of the braided line is done the same way:  Remember, 150 yards of 50 lb. Power pro:

150 x .014 inch = 2.1  The braid capacity factor is 2.1

So the remaining capacity (or mono needed as backing) is:   The total capacity factor minus the braid capacity factor or:  10.3 – 2.1 = 8.2  This is the Remaining Capacity Factor.  This is the reason we went through all this.  The remaining capacity factor divided by the diameter of the mono tells us how much backing we need or:  8.2 ¸ .022 = 373 yards of the monofilament backing.

Simply load the reel with 373 yards of this mono, join the mono to the braid and wind it on.  If you are interested to know your new line capacity just add the two numbers 373 yards of mono + 150 yards of braid = 523 yards of line.

Want to add capacity to a spinning reel (or any reel)?  Trying to figure out how much braided line the spool will hold?  This method makes short work of it.  Of course we start with the manufacturers information.  Most often it is printed right on the spool itself.  Lets say we have a spinning reel that holds 195 yards of 20 lb test.  We want to keep 20-pound test but here we want to increase the amount of line on the reel. 

Remember:  Line capacity multiplied by the Line diameter = Total Capacity Factor or 195 x .018 = 3.51

Then the total capacity factor divided by the “new” line diameter (the braided line)  = The new capacity

Or 3.51 ¸ .009 = 390 yards of 20 pound test braided line.  In this case we have doubled the reels line capacity.  You may decide that you do not need that much line and opt for a little more strength.  Simply take the total capacity factor (you already figured this out) and divide it by the diameter of 30 pound braid or: 3.51 ¸ .011 = 319.  Perfect.  You now have 319 yards of 30-pound braid vs. 195 yards of 20 lb. Mono.  Look out Spindlebeak – I’m a commin’.

So with an inexpensive line counter and a calculator you can get you reel spooled to the brim without wasting any of that expensive braided line.
 
Fill your reel with line, fill your cooler with pop and fill your boat with fish

That is a great tool.  Just need to get a line counter now to know how much I'm spooling.  Timeis running short so I may just wing it this time.

~Bill

That is a great tool.  Just need to get a line counter now to know how much I'm spooling.
~Bill

Or just look at the reel specs and figure out line retrieval (inches) per crank. Input that into your calculations and then just count off the cranks. That's how I end up doing it.

Ex.
(#of yards) <-- braid, mono, fluoro
(inches per crank)
(#of yards to Inch conversion)

(# of yards to inches conversion) / (inches per crank) = ( total numbers of cranks)

All good info!  That is one of the last "to-do's" I have ... other than packing all this stuff up in the car for tomorrow.

See you all soon!

Bill

I say run a few wraps of mono to stop slipping the splice braid an filler up

I back with mono. Helps with slipping. But for the most part its seems pointless to use 400yrs of spectra when you will only use the top 150ish yards for local fishing. I usually loosely spool on the spectra then top it with mono to the the fill level. then take it all off and spool it in the correct order tightly. Helps to have two extra reels to do the winding and re winding. I normally use whatever cheap mono i have laying around (somewhere in the 25-40lb range)

why the hell I never thought of that ill never know. I always have to try and guess the amout of mono backing great tip.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

That is a great tool.  Just need to get a line counter now to know how much I'm spooling.
~Bill

Or just look at the reel specs and figure out line retrieval (inches) per crank. Input that into your calculations and then just count off the cranks. That's how I end up doing it.

Ex.
(#of yards) <-- braid, mono, fluoro
(inches per crank)
(#of yards to Inch conversion)

(# of yards to inches conversion) / (inches per crank) = ( total numbers of cranks)

Isn't the inches per crank spec only accurate with a full Spool? To me it seems like an empty spool would be less than half of the inches per crank then a full spool.

That is a great tool.  Just need to get a line counter now to know how much I'm spooling.
~Bill

Or just look at the reel specs and figure out line retrieval (inches) per crank. Input that into your calculations and then just count off the cranks. That's how I end up doing it.

Ex.
(#of yards) <-- braid, mono, fluoro
(inches per crank)
(#of yards to Inch conversion)

(# of yards to inches conversion) / (inches per crank) = ( total numbers of cranks)

Isn't the inches per crank spec only accurate with a full Spool? To me it seems like an empty spool would be less than half of the inches per crank then a full spool.

You're 100% right on a full spool pulling more per crank. I say if you're that worried about it get a line counter but remember you never get as much line on there as they state on the box.

I put it all on, lose a little here n there, then after a year or so I take it off and rewind in the opposite direction so now the unused new line is out first. I tie it to the spooland use tape to hold it to the spool so it wont slip.

Good article but I try not to over think it. A few cranks of 20  or 25lb mono then fill it up with braid. I tie on about a 6' leader of floro to a snap swivel. The snap is useful for changing lures quickly. By the time I break off the swivel I usually have found whats working and tie it on directly.