Halibut and Harpoons

I received this from the DFG in an email regarding using a harpoon to land Halibut .  I haven't ever caught a Pacific Halibut but I thought this info should be passed on since it seems to conflict with what I have read about landing them with a harpoon.
Question: Pacific halibut have become a sought-after sport fish out of Eureka and Trinidad. I have a question about landing large Pacific halibut, particularly in a relatively small boat. Many people use a type of harpoon with a head that comes off and is tethered to the boat. This prevents the fish from heading down while a rope is run through its gills for hauling it aboard. I was told that harpooning them this way was possibly illegal under rules governing harpooning fish. In this case the fish was caught with normal hook and line. The harpoon is used only to land the fish safely, similar to a gaff but more secure. Is this legal? Are there better methods? I have heard many tales of big halibut doing serious damage to fishermen if they are brought aboard too early and without steps taken to control them. All ideas are welcome. (Tom P., Eureka)
 
Answer: Harpoons cannot be used to “take” halibut, and landing the fish is an integral part of “take.” So just because you get the fish to the surface, it does not mean it has been “taken” until it is landed (secured). Most fish are lost at the surface, so take has not been completed and a harpoon could not be used at this point. Harpoons are only allowed for the actual take of all varieties of skates, rays, and sharks, except white sharks (California Code of Regulations Title 14, Section 28.95).

 
Is it illegal to spear Pac halis in CA as well? Odd.

oh well. Guess it was a good thing no one caught any at GS7.

Guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board.

Is it illegal to spear Pac halis in CA as well? Odd.

oh well. Guess it was a good thing no one caught any at GS7.

Guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board.

Dang it.

Can you rig up a band on the end of one of those harpoons? Can use it as a pole spear so they can still be functional art! I know some guys on DOTY that would be stoked to try one out! 

 

Sincerely,

Jim

What a stupid rule. I can spear one with a speargun or polespear, but not a harpoon??

Could just bring a speargun with slip tip and shoot it and would be legal then right?

 

Sincerely,

Jim

So no Wicked Tuna harpoon throws?
But you are legally able to gaff them still correct?
One of my goals on my bucket list is to catch and land an eat a halibut.

Thanks for the post.  We were having a long discussion on Humboldttuna.com about using a bang stick to subdue them.  It was eventually answered that a bang stick is considered a firearm and thus illegal in CA.  Everthing is illegal in CA, but not in other states.

I don't consider that the final answer for whatever that's worth.

 seems it has been a contentious issue for a while.
A quick google search turns up this from march:

Mar 14, 2013
Legal in California to use firearms to safely land large halibut?
Cahalibut2011In support of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife and its effort to keep hunters and anglers informed, Pete Thomas Outdoors, on Thursday or Friday, posts marine biologist Carrie Wilson's weekly California Outdoors Q&A column:

Question: I have a question about safely bringing large halibut onboard. Because the Pacific halibut caught in Alaska are often over 100 pounds, deckhands use pistols or small shotguns to kill the fish before bringing them on board. This is to prevent the fish from causing damage or hurting anyone once on the deck. Would this method be legal to use in California ocean waters with large fish? Of course, the fish would already be "landed" by first being gaffed. Is it even legal to carry a pistol while fishing on a private boat near shore? (Timothy B., Morro Bay)

Answer: Sport fishermen may take halibut by hand, hook and line, spear fishing, spear, harpoon or bow and arrow (California Code of Regulations Title 14, sections 28.65, 28.90 and 28.95.) Firearms are not a legal method of take for halibut, so a gun may not be used to assist in taking or landing the fish.

...I tried to pull up the regs stated there but did not find anything clearly saying yea or nay...

...and on other sites it sounds like it comes down to the definition of "harpoon". From what I can gather (in the last 10 minutes) what we have been calling a "harpoon" is actually a "handheld straight halibut gaff with a detachable flying head".
If you throw the thing and it leaves your hand and it only attached via a lanyard, it is a harpoon. If the shaft does not leave your hand and the thing is used to stab the fish in place of a curved gaff, it is a halibut gaff?

and there are flying gaffs where the hook comes off and is attached to a rope.

CA regs are ridiculous.

I like it Sean...you don't have a harpoon...you have a "handheld straight halibut gaff with a detachable flying head"

 

 

Sincerely,

Jim

and there are flying gaffs where the hook comes off and is attached to a rope.

CA regs are ridiculous.

agreed, it makes zero sense to me.

 I think the spirit of the law is to keep people from using a surface harpoon to land halibut. Y'know, 'cause halibut are so often seen basking on the surface.

For now I'm inclined to go with the "straight flying gaff". Be interesting to see how much light can be shone into this gray area of the regs.

This was my question to the lawyers:


The question has come up in the local sport fishing community:

Is it legal to use a "bang stick" to assist in landing a halibut in California?"

A "bang stick" is a weapon, often a .410 shotgun slug but available in several calibers, loaded on the end of a device designed to discharge point blank into the intended target, in this case a Pacific halibut that has been brought alongside a boat after having voluntarily taken a hook in its mouth and having been played by the angler to the side of the boat.  Bang sticks have been around for decades and have a fixed head, so I don't believe that it would be an illegally improvised firearm or zip gun.

For examples of commercially available bang sticks for sale, see www.billsbangsticks.com

Carrie Wilson, a California Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist, has a weekly column that appears in several outdoors publications.  In March of this year, she answered the question in the negative.

http://www.myoutdoorbuddy.com/outdoor_report.php?outdoor=7070

        03/14/13 -- Question: I have a question about safely bringing large halibut onboard. Because the Pacific halibut caught in Alaska are often over 100 pounds, deckhands use pistols or small shotguns to kill the fish before bringing them on board. This is to prevent the fish from causing damage or hurting anyone once on the deck. Would this method be legal to use in California ocean waters with large fish? Of course, the fish would already be "landed" by first being gaffed. Is it even legal to carry a pistol while fishing on a private boat near shore? (Timothy B., Morro Bay)

        Answer: Sport fishermen may take halibut by hand, hook and line, spear fishing, spear, harpoon or bow and arrow (California Code of Regulations Title 14, sections 28.65, 28.90 and 28.95.) Firearms are not a legal method of take for halibut, so a gun may not be used to assist in taking or landing the fish.
        Carrie Wilson, MyOutdoorBuddy.com, Frank Galusha, california Department of Fish and Wildlife, Morro Bay, Halibut, Alaska, tarantula, white-tailed doe deer, California Fish and Game

        In some areas it may be legal to carry a pistol on a private boat but there are closures that prohibit the possession of any firearm on a boat along portions of the Monterey and San Luis Obispo county coastlines within the California Sea Otter Game Refuge. If considering carrying a pistol on your boat, you need to research local laws and ordinances within the jurisdictions you will be transiting on your fishing trip.

Her answer raises a couple of questions:
1.  We are assuming the answer to the threshold question - is a "bang stick" a firearm.  Is it?  Revenue Ruling 55-569:

Revenue Ruling 55-569, C.B. 1955-2, 483.

     A device ostensibly designed for submarine spear fishing, but
     capable of chambering and firing .22 caliber rimfire
     ammunition, is a firearm within the purview of the National
     Firearms Act.  However, such device, if permanently attached
     to the speargun shaft by the manufacturer, would not be a
     firearm.

     Advice has been requested whether the following described
device, ostensibly designed for submarine spear fishing but capable
of chambering and firing .22 caliber rimfire ammunition, is a
firearm within the purview of the National Firearms Act and/or the
Federal Firearms Act.

     The device, referred to as a "powerhead," is approximately 12
inches in overall length and 5/8 inch in diameter.  It employs a
unique spring-actuated firing mechanism and an off-center .22
caliber chamber opening into a 3/8 inch barrel, 1 and 15/16 inches
in length.  The barrel must be removed to chamber a cartridge and
the device is contact-fired by an outside trigger rod extending
beyond the muzzle. 

     Examination of the powerhead and consideration of the
brochures relating thereto results in the conclusion that it is a
device from which a shot can be discharged by the action of an
explosive and is capable of being concealed on the person.
Accordingly, the powerhead, by itself, is a firearm within the
purview of the National Firearms Act, specifically, sections
5848(1) and 5848(5) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954.  However,
if the powerhead is permanently attached to the speargun shaft by
the manufacturer, thereby increasing the overall length of the
device to not less than four feet, the speargun with the powerhead
attached would not be a firearm within the purview of the National
Firearms Act or the Federal Firearms Act.

The ruling is old, but it is the only one I could find.  Assuming a fixed head with a stick at least 26" in length firing a shotgun slug, is it a firearm?  It would seem safe to assume so, but there is apparently some doubt.

2.  "Gaff" is not listed as a method of take in the regulations in the introductions to either angling or diving/spearfishing, the sections cited by Ms. Wilson (14 CCR §§28.65, 28.90 and 28.95).  It appears in subsection (d) of the general gear restrictions at 14 CCR §28.65 as a means to take or to assist in the take of a fin fish.

(d) No gaff hook shall be used to take or assist in landing any fin fish
shorter than the minimum size limit. For the purpose of this section a gaff
hook is any hook with or without a handle used to assist in landing fish
or to take fish in such a manner that the fish does not take the hook volun-
tarily in its mouth. No person shall take fin fish from any boat or other
floating device in ocean waters without having a landing net in posses-
sion or available for immediate use to assist in landing undersize fish of
species having minimum size limits; the opening of any such landing net
shall be not less than eighteen inches in diameter.


Firearm is not mentioned in this section as restricted gear.

3.  The only time that the word "firearm" appears in the ocean sportfishing regulations at all is in relation to the prohibited methods of take for white sturgeon at 14 CCR 27.90(d)

(d) Methods of take: The sturgeon must voluntarily take the bait or lure
in its mouth. No sturgeon may be taken by trolling, snagging or by the
use of firearms. Sturgeon may not be gaffed, nor shall any person use any
type of firearm to assist in landing or killing any sturgeon.



Given that the prohibition specifically appears enumerated with respect to gaffs, snares and firearms with respect to white sturgeon, it seems fair to infer that those methods are allowed to assist in landing other types of fish unless also specifically prohibited.  The word "snare", like the word "firearm", is only used in the regulations in association with the take of white sturgeon.

4.  Is there anything elsewhere in the CCR or the Penal Code or elsewhere that would prohibit the use of a "bang stick" in California?

Putting aside questions of whether it is sporting or wise, is it legal?

Thank you,

Just slip it a roofie ...

A literal interpretation of the reasoning in that email also means that spearfishing for rockfish, lingcod, and anything else that isn't a shark, ray or skate is also illegal.

Apparently under 28.90 if you jump into the water first, you can harpoon a halibut.

CA regs are such a joke.