The laws of physics of a spinner? Help.

So, I still haven't been able to take a salmon from the Benicia area. Being stupid stubborn, I can't let it go and just keep casting. Instead, spinners are being built to cover as much of the water column as possible, but if the spinner body gets too big/heavy, the lure struggles to run properly.

Here's a couple of pics; they're no longer than others that run without problems. Anybody know what's going on underwater and why they won't run?
Thanks

[/img]

 

 My first thoughts were weight and or speed of retreival

Is it possible that they are too heavy and they are bouncing on the bottom, 1st Street is very shallow

Theres either a bend in the wire or your cranking too slow.I throw the mepps flying c and they are 5/8oz so not too many spinners run that heavy and it works fine for me.I use a 7'11" mh casting rod with 50# braid so it sinks relk fast.

Thanks guys.

I'm throwing out and around the park, which is a 1000x more people stimuli than I'm used too, so I've yet to brave the 1st street crowd.
I'm pretty comfortable throwing the hardware and have made probably a 1000 spinners over the last 20 years, so I'm pretty in-tune with 'em. Pretty sure it's a weight thang that's doing something to influence the turn of the blade.

CGN-38, if I rip it from the moment it hits water and keep a super fast retrieve, they'll turn, but that ain't right, cause now I'm defeating the purpose, cause now I'm lifting it through the column where I've convinced myself they're running. I can convince myself of all sorts of things when I can't get a fish to respond.
Most often, imho, salmon respond to spinners best when the blade is just spinning fast enough to go, "Whooop,,,Whooop,,,,Whooop." Or, "Whooop,,,Whooop,,,," and then, "whop, whop" on the swing. Sick in the head, I know

Don, when fishing the straights part of the straight, I've never touched bottom, other than right in front, and I'd feel it. But, that would cause the blade to respond, which is a great thing when it's, "tick, tick, ticking. I'm not getting that.

Vince, thought the same on the shafts so I went to a heavy duty wire, but no fix. Yea; it's too slow, but why? These are heavy baits pushing 3/4s to nearly an ounce.

Larger clevis? Weight the blade a little near the front? Is it an angle thing as it rides? Too much downward tilt?
Ahhh, If I only had a brain or if OZ 's face hadn't melted when I'd met 'em that late friday night while listening to Floyd, sitting in a bean bag with a strobe light going. Bet that thing called high school where all the other kids went monday through friday would'a helped me answer the question.
Anyone else or is it just an impossibility after some threshold is reached?

It is simple vector physics.  I think the weight of the spinner is causing the spinner to sink during the retrieve resulting in not enough force being applied along the Y axis.  If you reduce the weight, or increase you retrieve speed, more force will be applied along the horizontal axis of the spinner, and spin the blade properly.  You could also go to a larger blade, which would not need as much water traveling along the axis to spin due to the increased surface area.

R=√〖Rx〗^2 〖Ry〗^2

Basically my opinion is to balance the spinner blade and clevis to the size/weight of the lure.  The larger blade creates some lift through the water column which will overcome the lure sinking or the angle influenced into the lure as a result of its increased mass.  You may also add a few more spacer beads in front of the body to keep the blade from contacting the body of the lure.  This would reduce the friction between the surfaces.

In Colusa we used spinners a lot.  We made them from a large blade, welding wire and Walmart plastic beads (green and blue always worked well).  The beads kept the weight low.  We used large blades to create more water resistance and spin, even when anchored in the river.  The salmon loved them.  Look at some of the Silvertron spinners for ideas.

Your spinners look great BTW!

Matt

It is simple vector physics.

I agree 100%.  Add a bigger (heavier) blade and take a little off the body. It should balance the weight better across the whole spinner. 

Does the blade spin when you cast?  I've noticed that big blue foxes and flying C's do not spin in the air, but smaller Mepps do.   I think it's because the blades are much heavier on the bigger spinners.



Sent from my iPhone

It is simple vector physics. 

R=√〖Rx〗^2 〖Ry〗^2

Simple vector physics, yea, okay. The only thing my fried brain remembers about the X and Y Axis is y =mx+b, which had something to do with something about plotting numbers. Now, back in high school, if it had been about potting and not plotting, I bet I'd of attended that class.

Ya guys notice that 2 is the only number in that equation? So, my, "please excuse my poor aunt sally" doesn't do me much good.

"The larger blade creates some lift through the water column which will overcome the lure sinking or the angle influenced into the lure as a result of its increased mass."

I think I get this and it makes me think I can't win this. Shoot; I don't want to go back to blind chucking, praying to the fishing gods that I eventually bonk a king on the nose.

Oh well.



Your spinners look great BTW!

Matt

I love math, I know I am sick.  Physics is the only math I ever really liked, as it applies to the world around us.  That and I use it at work all the time.

I dug out one of my old salmon spinners and took a picture.  This is not my favorite color, but is all I could find in my lure pile.  I have used spinner blades larger than this too.  It casts well.  If I am trolling or casting, I just use an egg weight up the line with a swivel and leader to the spinner.  this keeps the spinner working well yet allows it to go deeper, without adding weight to the spinner itself.  Kind of like trout fishing on a larger scale.

If I am anchored and using the river current, I use a 3 way swivel with a weight on the bottom.





Matt