ID'ing a Chinook vs a Coho

Eric,
From the pics you posted that is 100% a Chinook.  Thanks for putting this up as after reading a few of the posts after yours because it seems we need a refresher here:

1. Only look at lower jaw.  Tailspotting is absolutely not a good characteristics for ID as I catch many kings a year with almost no spotting on the lower lobe of the caudal (tail) fin.  REPEAT!! Only look at lower jaw as these are 100% characteristics (I have seen literally thousands of all species involved and these rules hold true):

Chinook = Black tongue, black gums (where the teeth are embedded is black) (this is why they are called blackmouths in WA)
Steelhead = white tongue, white gums (where the teeth are embedded)
Coho  = black tongue, black gums BUT, they have a white (maybe gray but NOT black) gum line where their teeth are embedded.

That's it!  Every other characteristic (and there are many like coho are usually green on top, well Chinook can be too) should not be relied upon for ID.

It's not advisable to use the spots on the lower tail as a primary identifier. And identifying them by the black gums isn't always black and white (no pun intended). There have been cases when a small white dot can get you a fine and you have to use other ways to make sure that it's a king.

Identifying them by the lower jaw and the coloration of the gums and where their teeth are embedded IS A 100% CHARACTERISTIC.  I absolutely DO NOT agree with your last statement and have never heard of that AND if anyone ever has a case against them please run it by me and I'll help you if a warden issues a ticket by a mistaken ID.  But this is just not true from an ID point of view. The only cases I have heard where this rule doesn't ring true are a couple of funky hatchery hybrids that showed up in a commercial fishery.

^ Don't want to go too off topic on this.

I've heard about it before on Coastside and would use all possible ways of identifying a king in a certain order until I'm 100% sure. The risk of a potential ticket is just too great not to use any of the other identifiers.

It's great that you can identify them by just looking at the lower gum line. I'm a little more cautious.

It was a pink salmon. 

^ Don't want to go too off topic on this.

I've heard about it before on Coastside and would use all possible ways of identifying a king in a certain order until I'm 100% sure. The risk of a potential ticket is just too great not to use any of the other identifiers.

It's great that you can identify them by just looking at the lower gum line. I'm a little more cautious.

I'm not saying don't look at other characteristics, but only use the lower jaw as a 100% reliable characteristic to definitively tell the difference between Chinook, coho and steelhead trout.

We can agree to disagree.

But, just wanted to provide the warning and let individuals decide if seeing black at the base of the teeth is sufficient. It's not always clear-cut.

From another site:
"Back in 07 I got checked and writen up. My fish was 14 lbs and had a all black mouth with only one very little white spot. The white spot was as small as a pencil tip and in the back of his mouth. The top of the fish was black with spots. The fine then was 1400 bucks and a misdemeanor was put on my nice clean record."

And

"I should've lost it but i didnt want to risk injury to the fish by bringing it in. It had no green in its back, no bumps near its tail and an "almost" all black mouth. It did however have glimpses of white at the base of its teeth and upper lip area. I made the best guess possible and kept the king. Later, I got checked out by F & G and he cleared the fish but also made note of the white in its gum. He looked it over 4 times before giving it clearance! Even the "expert' struggled with I.D. Are you seriously going to tell me that if he chose to make this a Silver that I would have to pay $1,800, go on criminal probation and lose the rest of my stringer? "

Nudling,
I am telling you this as a NOAA fisheries biologist who has extensive experience and is trying to educate fisherman so they DON'T get fined.  It's not a "agree to disagree" case.  Getting fisherman to be confident in what they are catching is what I am trying to do to be able to be more knowledgable when confronted by a warden when they have a legal fish.  There will always be unintentional mistakes made in any fish ID but if anglers here learn from what I'm telling them as a fisheries (salmon) biologist then there will be less mistakes made.  The two examples you posted are real situations, but hard to know where the truth lies in them.  I hardly believe someone got a $1400 ticket because of a white spot.  If you were that confident you caught a king and were about to get fined $1400 wouldn't you post a picture or at least try to involve a biologist? 

Second quote, "It did however have glimpses of white at the base of its teeth" then he kept it??  He must not have seen DFG's flyer in the regs then.  This guy made a bad decision to keep the fish if he wasn't sure and didn't understand the regs.

Please, I implore everyone to start taking pictures to help educate yourselves, post them here, send them via PM to me and I will help you.  The more knowledgeable you are, the better off it will be for wardens and fisherman.

So Bluefin, would you say then, if there is any white touching the teeth whatsoever... let it go?  That is what I have believed as a better safe than sorry way of looking at it... ALL BLACK... it goes on ice. 

Another thing I have noticed... though not really useful in identifying a fish, but a red flag nonetheless... if the fish seems to be throwing scales all over the place in the net... it always seems to be a silver.  I have noticed this fishing off fort bragg on multiple occasions.

So Bluefin, would you say then, if there is any white touching the teeth whatsoever... let it go?  That is what I have believed as a better safe than sorry way of looking at it... ALL BLACK... it goes on ice.

Coho have black gums EXCEPT for a white "line" encompassing all the teeth on the lower jaw.  I really have not seen too many small white spots on kings but please post pics.

Another thing I have noticed... though not really useful in identifying a fish, but a red flag nonetheless... if the fish seems to be throwing scales all over the place in the net... it always seems to be a silver.  I have noticed this fishing off fort bragg on multiple occasions.

One species that really throws the scales are pink salmon (with very small trout like scales).  Other odd characteristics are coho have pretty uniform scales over their body and a different sheen (pink and purple) when you see them amongst other salmonids on deck, like thousands of pinks.  Chinook smell different (below and above water) as shown to me by commercial fisherman during gill net fisheries (you can actually smell them coming over the rail) and purse net fisheries as orca would slip into half way pursed nets and pick out Chinook (stellar sea lions do this as well) among 10's of thousands of pinks and cohos.  Also sockeye jump out of the water like dolphins and jump the way the school is moving.  Pink salmon do sort of a backward flip in orientation to which way the school is moving.

Another thing I have noticed... though not really useful in identifying a fish, but a red flag nonetheless... if the fish seems to be throwing scales all over the place in the net... it always seems to be a silver.  I have noticed this fishing off fort bragg on multiple occasions.

One species that really throws the scales are pink salmon (with very small trout like scales).  Other odd characteristics are coho have pretty uniform scales over their body and a different sheen (pink and purple) when you see them amongst other salmonids on deck, like thousands of pinks.  Chinook smell different (below and above water) as shown to me by commercial fisherman during gill net fisheries (you can actually smell them coming over the rail) and purse net fisheries as orca would slip into half way pursed nets and pick out Chinook (stellar sea lions do this as well) among 10's of thousands of pinks and cohos.  Also sockeye jump out of the water like dolphins and jump the way the school is moving.  Pink salmon do sort of a backward flip in orientation to which way the school is moving.

Hmmm... Now I have another question.  Off our coastline, are there species other than kings and silvers present?

Very rare, but I've seen pinks as far south as Big Sur. Legal to keep btw.

Great Thread

Hmmm... Now I have another question.  Off our coastline, are there species other than kings and silvers present?

A pair of Sockeye in full spawning colors came in the Mad River late in the summer a few years back - it was in the local paper - that was a trip!

Now does anyone know of the trick of the tail between coho and chinook? On the top lobe of the tailfin.